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wow Shelly - you have reading comprehension! Revulsion is a pretty good word.

i betcha Sister Dominica'd be right prouda me!

shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com / (updated dailyish, apparently)
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*My* fear is that it would be yet another relinquishment of our freedoms, LM.

Which is another aspect to it that flitted across my mind but I didn't really explore.

IMO, you should. And very carefully. And RATIONALLY.
IMO, BSL is very similar to GCL (gun control legislation). ... and general public to "do something." It's: Fire! Aim! Ready!

I agree with you - that's why I feel sort of confused about it. I need to put all this ... ban in Ontario, while at the same time nodding in agreement with many of the very sensible arguments presented here.

Do you really think that banning pitbulls will prevent these scumbags* (and that's exactly what they are) from taking another breed (or breeds) and then screwing *it up, too?
They'll cobble together something, you can bet the farm on it, and then what do we ban?
Dogs altogether? Just to make sure that "they" can't have one?

Unless they themselves are made to pay a serious price for their irresponsibility and misadventure, **** will just allow them to create a new version of a "big bad dawg."
I'm old enough to remember when lots of people were talking about banning the GSD and the Dobe.
What a LOSS that would have been!
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Similarly, GCL punishes all the responsible, peaceful, skillful, gun owners, ... of a few. With ownership should come RESPONSIBILITY and ACCOUNTABILITY.

True but when that doesn't happen, and there are inevitably instances when it doesn't happen - people get maimed.

If you truly want the maiming to stop, then support increased penalties for the OWNERS of the dogs who allow their dogs to maim.

Gun control doesn't decrease gun violence.
Scumbags can always get guns ILLEGALLY.
It simply makes it unlawful for a peaceful, and otherwise law-abiding citizen to PROTECT himself, his family, and his property.

It essentially throws the baby out with the bath water.
That's the sticking point for me - would less people be maimed if the problem was addressed from the breed end as opposed to the owner end? If the answer is yes then that's a pretty compelling argument pro, imo.

It's a no-brainer, LM.
Severely punish the dog OWNER who allows, encourages, uses, etc. his dog to seriously injure a human being and you'd almost never hear of it happening.
No slaps on the wrist allowed!
These scumbags like having their "bad dawgs" around, yes, but they do NOT enjoy having their property confiscated, being thrown in the slammer, etc.
If the people who committed crimes with the use of a firearm were even more seriously punished than they already are, gun crime would plummet even more, and literally overnight.
Violent crime is down for one reason and one reason only: because there are more violent criminals in prison than ever before.

And that's exactly where they belong.
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So to ever get my* vote in support of *any kind of BSL, you'd have to "pry it from my cold dead fingers," too.

heh. You haven't been accused of wishy washy-ness much, I'm sure.

Yup. I've been accused of just about everything under the sun at one time or another, LM, but "wishy-washy" wasn't one of them.

You seem like a veryquick study. Emotion: smile

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Mr. Sharansky, ease my doubts:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/Sharansky.htm
Well of course I'm talking generalities here, the perceptions of the non-dog immersed average jane.

okey dokey. so the average person thinks small and poofy is cute and big and nekkid is oogly? i guess ... AEs were registered? of the six breeds that outranked Boxers in registration statistics, only one is vaguely small and poofy.

The average person thinks pit bulls are scarier looking than eskies. I mean, sheesh, why are you being so obtuse?

Not to me.
It'll be tough to fight - people tend to have ... are coming from one particular breed, they're going to react.

yes. and i find that tragic.

Which tragedy are you referring to? Oh wait, I think I know.

Okay, if you really want to change things, I'll give you a clue: the way to do that would be through educating the average joe who is the force driving these bans, and if you come across as a self righteous, arrogant jerk, these average joes will label you as, you know, a self righteous, arrogant jerk. If you don't listen you won't be heard. You aren't doing your breed any favour by demonstrating exactly the bully characteristics your breed is labeled with.

Just a thought.
That's the real world and we all have to live in it.

you seem to be implying that we all should meekly accept it, though, and i don't agree.

I'm anti acceptance - I'm just tellin' ya, these are the perceptions that most people have and with some merit, imo - so now what? Yell at them for being ignorant or is there an alternative? Like actually talking with them about their concerns - how many hearts and minds have you changed by being a snarky, condescending wanker?
LF
'growling back'
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And it's pretty hard to hit a new low when you're already at rock bottom. But she did it, nonetheless!

Is this the only rebuttal to a perfectly logical argument?

The words "logical" and "diddy" should never appear in the same sentence.
You are to logic what 50 Cent is to the La Scala opera.
That means I win.

For you to ever win, diddy, and for your "logic" to remain consistent, you should also be in favor of gun* control legislation that would allow the government to BAN and then CONFISCATE all those guns you currently keep in *your gun-cabinet at home (yes, right now), just because a few scumbags are using guns just like them to commit crimes and kill people.
Fat chance, huh?
What a maroon.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Mr. Sharansky, ease my doubts:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/Sharansky.htm
The average person thinks pit bulls are scarier looking than eskies. I mean, sheesh, why are you being so obtuse?

what is your point? do you really mean to imply that it's okay to ban a breed just because JQP might think it's scary looking?
Okay, if you really want to change things, I'll give you a clue: the way to do that would be ... heard. You aren't doing your breed any favour by demonstrating exactly the bully characteristics your breed is labeled with.

how sweet of you to have outlined my agenda for me.
Just a thought.

and here's another. Pit Bulls are not "my breed."
Yell at them for being ignorant or is there an alternative?

generally, there is no meaningful alternative. discussing BSL tends to be like discussing abortion or the death penalty: there's lots of emoting and anger and very, very, very little communication.
Like actually talking with them about their concerns - how many hearts and minds have you changed by being a snarky, condescending wanker?

you haven't seen snarky and condescending. HTH!

(FWIW i gave up on the thoughtful and non-confrontational approach, as it got no response from you. why should i waste my time?)

shelly
http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com / (updated dailyish, apparently)
()
The average person thinks pit bulls are scarier looking than eskies.

LF, here's a picture of one of those really "scary" pitbulls.

His name is Petey.
Scary, huh?
The "average person" thinks there are little green men from Mars among us, too.
What we really need is legislation to ban "average people." Emotion: smile

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
Mr. Sharansky, ease my doubts:
http://www.geocities.com/martinkramerorg/Sharansky.htm
The pit bull earned it's reputation. It's done the deed. It's earned it's way to the top of people's lists ... BSL did NOT happen until the Pit Bull started increasing in popularity and the public decided something MUST be done.

Actually, the earliest BSL I'm aware of was passed in Australia in 1928. It banned the importation of German Shepherds based on fears that the breed was a vicious sheep-killer (and of course, if they're properly trained and handled, they are not - I have worked sheep with GSDs myself).

During this same period of time, of course, the pit bull enjoyed a much different reputation than it does today. Typified by Petey in the TV series "Our Gang"; Nipper, the dog in the RCA logo; and Tige, the dog in the Buster Brown comic strip, the pit bull was thought to be an ideal family pet because of his gentleness with children.

At any rate, BSL certainly does predate the current public fear of the "pit bill".
Dianne
(FWIW i gave up on the thoughtful and non-confrontational approach, as it got no response from you. why should i waste my time?)

Don't get all petulant, I have a job and my network connection is down today so I'm posting maniacally. I probably owe a few other people replies as well, I know it's rude not to reply but sometimes life intrudes.

You're smart but you ooze hostility, Shelly. I might've just decided to avoid you so we wouldn't get into one of those stiff legged bitches circling one another snarling things. I can't remember but knowing me as I do it wasn't a snub, probably more of an avoidance.
LF
'gimme a hug'
It's better than boxers being targeted, no?

But they have been. The state-wide bill in New Mexico that was defeated would have automatically labelled any Boxer a dangerous dog.
Dianne
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