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Thanks again.

You're welcome!

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
It also works to (gently) hold the muzzle closed and ... say "No bite!" You can follow with redirection as above.

That's not my preference. Corrections only work when the dog understands the behaviour.

And shrieking "OW!" isn't my preference.
Why do you assume that they don't understand? When they are with their mother, they understand that if they nip her too hard they will be nipped back, and therefore they learn limits. With humans, they learn that if they nip they will experience the unpleasant but not painful sensation of having their mouth held closed for a moment, and therefore they learn limits. They also learn to associate the phrase "no bite" with this limit. After a while, you can simply say "no bite" and they will stop the behavior.

I've found that the puppies seem to understand it perfectly. (Obviously you have to do it quickly, when they are actually biting you, so that they know what you are objecting to.) They quickly learn that biting a human is not an acceptable form of play.
That's not my preference. Corrections only work when the dog understands the behaviour.

And shrieking "OW!" isn't my preference.

Nor is it mine, as I've already written.
Why do you assume that they don't understand?

If he understood the behavior, he wouldn't do it on a regular basis. Corrections, when used, are best used when the dog backslides.
When they are with their mother, they understand that if they nip her too hard they will be nipped back, ... "no bite" with this limit. After a while, you can simply say "no bite" and they will stop the behavior.

Humans are not dogs, so I don't think it's a good idea to equate a dam nipping to a human hand closing a puppy's mouth. Anyway, I'm glad it works with you. I certainly wouldn't follow that method, especially with a hand-shy dog.

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
BWEEAAAHAHAHAHHAHAAA!!!
You had ENOUGH YET, jack?
And shrieking "OW!" isn't my preference.

Nor is it mine, as I've already written.

I thought that the cry of pain followed by redirection was your preference. I must have misread.
Why do you assume that they don't understand?

If he understood the behavior, he wouldn't do it on a regular basis. Corrections, when used, are best used when the dog backslides.

I still don't get exactly what you mean by "If he understood the behavior." Do you mean "if he understood that playbiting is not desirable"? If so, I have to disagree. Dogs know that certain behaviors of theirs are not desirable to humans, and yet they continue to do them all the time because they enjoy it and/or the instinctive drive is strong and/or they are simply immature. For example: chewing unauthorized things, not coming when called, chasing cats, counter surfing, barking, jumping. Some of these things they can be trained out of, or grow out of, but in no case do they stop doing it just because they understand you don't want them to. They usually understand that right away, not being dumb.
The "correction," as you call it I think that is much too strong a term is not given without any indication of what is being corrected. The puppy's teeth are on your hand or arm . You immediately remove your body part from their mouth and gently admonish the puppy by holding his offending part for a moment. In my experience they learn very quickly not to bite, and only backslide when overexcited. So I think they "understand the behavior."
When they are with their mother, they understand that if ... simply say "no bite" and they will stop the behavior.

Humans are not dogs, so I don't think it's a good idea to equate a dam nipping to a human hand closing a puppy's mouth.

I agree that nipping back like their mother would be ideal. But we're not about to do it, so this is a good substitute.
Anyway, I'm glad it works with you. I certainly wouldn't follow that method, especially with a hand-shy dog.

I wouldn't do it with a hand shy dog either. That's common sense. But how often have you encountered puppies who are hand shy? I can't recall one. (Not saying it doesn't occur, but isn't that usually something that is a learned response to being smacked on the muzzle, etc?)

Anyway, the fact is that there is more than one good way to accomplish most such goals, and it probably depends on the breeds and the individual dogs in question.
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I still don't get exactly what you mean by "If he understood the behavior." Do you mean "if he understood ... that right away, not being dumb. The "correction," as you call it I think that is much too strong a term

I don't, because that's exactly what it is.
We already have more than enough words that have basically lost all their meaning, lets not lose another one's.
is not given without any indication of what is being corrected. The puppy's teeth are on your hand or arm ... experience they learn very quickly not to bite, and only backslide when overexcited. So I think they "understand the behavior."

I'm with you, Janet.
It's classical CC.
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Anyway, I'm glad it works with you. I certainly wouldn't follow that method, especially with a hand-shy dog.

I wouldn't do it with a hand shy dog either. That's common sense. But how often have you encountered puppies ... good way to accomplish most such goals, and it probably depends on the breeds and the individual dogs in question.

I'm a retriever trainer, Janet. Can you imagine anything worse for a retriever trainer than a hand-shy dog?

Well, I've never had a hand-shy dog, and I've been correcting retriever pups in ways very similar to yours for many years.

Works for me.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
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