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What do you know now that makes that difference?

How quickly a UTI can become severe, and how quickly a severe UTI can lead to organ failure, for a start.
I've had personal experience (very recurring for years, but infrequent..thankfully..for almost a decade now), as well as many experiences with clients dogs. Some are acute and painful for the animal right away, but many aren't.

I don't think we can begin to guess how much pain the animal is or is not experiencing. In this case, I assume the worst, regardless of whether or not the animal is exhibiting signs of pain. We both know just how stoic some animals can be.
Don't we take people to task for assuming that what is true for their pets automatically applies to everyone else's animal?

Of course.
I think, in the case of urinary tract problems, it is best to act aggressively. I've been pretty vocal about not liking to use antibiotics unless it's absolutely necessary, but this is one instance where I think treating for a UTI even without positive lab results is called for, if* there is good reason to believe the animal *has a UTI. That's obviously the OP's call. However, if it were me, and my animal were exhibiting the behaviors described(1), I wouldn't be waiting 3+ days to begin treatment. Nor would my vet expect it, thankfully.

(1) Message-ID: (Email Removed)

"2 things happened that were
different form the past few days. Today as soon as you take her out she'll squat and pee, i praise her and we keep walking in the backyard, then she'll squat up to three more times without peeing at all or just a dro por two. Then when we go inside she'll do the same thing inside within minutes of comming in. I also noticed today for the first time she had peed in her crate."

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
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However, if it were me, and my animal were exhibiting the behaviors described(1), I wouldn't be waiting 3+ days to begin treatment.

Neither would I.
However, my sole point is that I don't think anyone is going to successfully brow beat this guy into moving on this more quickly. Since the pup's life isn't at stake (and no one knows what her actual discomfort level is), I just don't see why going over and over this is productive. The group did a great thing in getting him to look at the very likely cause (I think UTI is spot-on here), but to keep haranguing him just undoes his willingness to bring his issues here for help. How much does that actually help this pup in the long run?
Tara
but to keep haranguing him just undoes his willingness to bring his issues here for help. How much does that actually help this pup in the long run?

I didn't think I was haranguing him, but since you disagree I guess I'll quit this thread.
FWIW I had hoped that he'd rethink matters and try to get the puppy in to see another vet.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
One of the advantages of being disorderly is that one is constantly making exciting discoveries.
A.A. Milne
but to keep haranguing him just undoes his willingness to ... does that actually help this pup in the long run?

I didn't think I was haranguing him, but since you disagree I guess I'll quit this thread. FWIW I had hoped that he'd rethink matters and try to get the puppy in to see another vet.

It wasn't just you, and it probably wasn't just this thread. Its something I've been hyper noticing lately. I've been trying to keep my own responses in check since I returned to posting here (with varying degrees of success..and failure), and I've really noticed how much this group really tends to do that. Talking about him in the third person between you and diddy, and both discussing him and how awful his choice was..well, I just reacted to it, that's all.FWIW, I think the pup would be better served by putting her on a harmless antibiotic with the assumption that its a UTI (and the vet wouldn't even have to do more than phone a generic into the pharmacist and the guy could just pick it up there)..and, like you, I'm *extremely opposed to unnecessary use of antibiotics (keep in mind that Finn died as a result of an infection that is one of the new SuperBugs resistant to antibiotics through overuse by the poultry industry.

So, yeah, I get really cranky when its given on little to no evidence of infection). But you guys tried. However, if I were new here, I would never* take the word of some unknown internet folk over the advice of two vets..so while I disagree with his choice, I can't really take him to task for making it. At least he made an informed choice, rather than just saying "Nah, I think I'll just wait and see if she gets better on her own. Trust me, I'd be haranguing myself if *that( had been his response.
Plus its crappy, rainy weather here, so I'm cranky and bored. Take what I say with a large salt lick.
Tara
called the head doctor there and he said that waiting till tuesday is the only option b/c there lab is down as well, and they would no tperscribe meds untill the test comes back.[/nq]I can understand a vet not wanting to prescribe until test results come back. What I have a hard time with is when urinalysis turned into something so complex that it can only be done in a lab. You can correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the largest vet practice around, and they don't have a centrifuge or a microscope? It takes like 10 minutes to spin the urine down, collect some cells and check it under a microscope to see if there are RBCs, WBCs, crystals, etc.

They may not be the most accurate, but there are dipsticks available for checking out anything from urinary pH to protein or glucose. These things can normally be done while you're still at the vet's, and should give the vet an indication of whether it is advisable to start treatment now, or if everything looks more or less normal, wait for the test results from the lab (like a microbial culture) to come back.

If this were my vet, I'd be looking for another one.

Suja
Tara, I am in the same boat cranky and bored so take what I say with a etc etcI think the OP came here with a legitimate problem or what he thought was. You know when you have a puppy you watch it like a hawk. I didn't notice if he said it was his first pup, that could make a difference too. My thoughts on this one when the OP posted it, he was concerned and later has thought better of it, so rather than say that (to us) he may feel compelled to come up with the 2 Vet story. I live in a one horse town, but unless I have UTI confused with another problem one of my dogs had.

She (my vet) could test it on the spot. (I may be mixing that up with another ailment). I personally have had a number of UTI's. I know it hurts like Hell. I don't know what effect it has on dogs (pain). I think if the dog is eating an drinking and able to pee at all no matter how frequently I would wait till Tues. However, that is just my opinion and I have NO medical knowledge so OP do not rely on what I say if you are still reading this. On the other hand there have been times (very few( when my Vet was waiting for test results and gave my animal an antibiotic based on what she thought it was until the test came back.

Good luck to the little dog that has the problem.
PS Dogs do and do not show pain, but obvious signs could be panting, pacing, lethargy...Once again I am just offering my FYI. This is a for sure, if your dog is not able to pee at all you better go somewhere now or he will surely die.
Be Free,
Judy
in thread "TaraG" (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
I'd fire BOTH of those vets. Don't trust your idjit ... They would treat it as the emergency that it IS

Is funny. You notice its all the women* that are suggesting he rush the puppy to the vet? More than ... find a vet *on Labor Day, which will be even more difficult than finding one today, I would think. Tara

If I absolutely, positively could NOT beg,borrow, or steal a vets attention, I'd be feeding that puppy both cranberry pills, AND Cystex. (4 times daily)
Cystex is a urinary antiseptic, urinary Antipyretic, that provides "some relief" ..much better than cranberry juice. It's an over the counter medication (however, usually kept on the druggists back shelves you have to ASK for it.)
Cystex helps.
Is funny. You notice its all the women that are ... more difficult than finding one today, I would think. Tara

If I absolutely, positively could NOT beg,borrow, or steal a vets attention, I'd be feeding that puppy both cranberry pills, ... the counter medication (however, usually kept on the druggists back shelves you have to ASK for it.) Cystex helps.[/nq]Tara has it right...no matter what you all think i take the advice of three... yes three vets that i know over the advice of random people on the internet, i came here with my original problem and you guys did point me in the right direction of it being a UTI (witch we don't even know if it is). So i will say thank you for suggesting what it might be. I really did like this group and i found a lot of helpful advice here, but some of you take other peoples problems WAY to seriously.

And insulting my grammar and spelling has nothing to do with the dog. When i get the results back i will let you all know how she is, as long as i don't get crucified for how i spell it! And please don't insult me be saying i was making any of this up. As soon as i made the original post
3 people said it might be a UTI so i called a 24 hour vet hospitalaround my area. Then i called my regular vet. Then i reluctantly called the hospital i work at, i was reluctant because i don't want them to think i am taking advantage or looking for free care since i am subcontracted there and started a week ago. Either way all three told me the same thing, which was unless she showed signs of discomfort or blood in her urine wait for the results, if either of the two occurred to bring her in immidietly which i will do should that come up.

thank you, and good day.
Damn Diddy,
That is good to know (Cystex) I have never seen it, now wonder if it is behind the counter.
I am convinced I have a systemic UTI and take some brand of urinary tract analgesic. There are several. They will ease the discomfort nut not get rid of it for me. I have taken Keflex,Bactrim, Septra, and that is how I know for a human being the test results is back before I leave the office.
I hope it does not hurt in dogs like it does in people.

Be Free,
Judy
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