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I agree, but does that take an hour? Jenny seemed to indicated that she thought he was realizing she was *** during that time, and I doubt that he was.

I have, on occasion, told the dogs to get away from me and stay away, until I've cooled down. I just send them upstairs instead of into a crate, but same difference. Yes, they know I'm PO'd. They more than likely don't know why or that they've somehow contributed to it, but my dogs always know when I'm in a foul mood. I bet Maui could tell that Jenny was upset as well.

FWIW, it takes a lot to get me to this point, but once I'm there, it takes a long time for me to come back down, and all four and two legged are best off getting out of my way in the meantime.
Suja
That poor dog deserved much better. She ended up being put down, which I think was preferable to how she'd been living.

How sad!
On the other hand, I also know that not crating a dog usually out of ignorance can have just as devastating results. ... are crated when left alone. If they have owners who will not use a crate, the dogs pay the price.

You bet. In those cases, I think it's even more important to have a schedule that allows for relief from the crate regularly though. Like a dog walker or such if owner is gone all day. I admit that I would be figuring out some sort of much larger but safe enclosure if I had a situation like that, where the dog had to be safely confined on a regular basis.
I wish crates had been popular when I had my first dog as an adolescent (both of us!). He did some real damage and a crate would have made a huge difference. He also would have learned to accept on as confinement (and important reason to crate train IMO). He did some damage to himself when in a cage at the vet's and a boarding facility, and I'd hate to ever have to go through that again.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
How sad!

It was, and since she was technically my supervisor, I couldn't exactly say shut up and stop telling me this awful story that is ALL YOUR OWN FREAKING FAULT!
You bet. In those cases, I think it's even more important to have a schedule that allows for relief from the crate regularly though.

And a full life outside of work hours.
Like a dog walker or such if owner is gone all day. I admit that I would be figuring out ... enclosure if I had a situation like that, where the dog had to be safely confined on a regular basis.

In some cases, such as SA, that might do more harm than good. But, with SA, hopefully the owner is working toward fixing the problem, not just managing it.
I wish crates had been popular when I had my first dog as an adolescent (both of us!).

Amen! I knew about crates when I had Cherokee, but I didn't understand their proper use. I didn't even know that SA was something that some dogs had, and that it could be managed and worked with. I just knew that she was batshit crazy and I couldn't even keep her contained in my house.
He did some real damage and a crate would have made a huge difference. He also would have learned to ... a cage at the vet's and a boarding facility, and I'd hate to ever have to go through that again.

Elliott had confinement issues, though he was okay at the vet (probably because he was heavily sedated the only time he was left there). He did eventually figure out that crates were okay, but it took a long time and the help of peer pressure.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
even if he doesn't know why he was there, it kept him away from me at a time when I needed him to be away.

I do something like this when I need to be away from a dog or dogs. If it's one dog, s/he gets a time out in the bathroom, if it's dogs in general, I retreat to my bedroom with the cat.
It's good to work on getting over things quickly, but it's also good to separate yourself when you're still upset.

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Max the pomeranian
& Rosalie the calico cat
It's good to work on getting over things quickly, but it's also good to separate yourself when you're still upset.

The last time I was *** off at dogs was when I had a resource guarding foster puppy. He and Franklin got into it over a freakin' squeaky toy AND DH. I tossed the puppy in the crate, and bellowed DOWN to Franklin. Nobody moved for a half hour. Including me. It was good to breathe and relax. Didn't need the half hour, but since the puppy fell asleep, it seemed good to let sleeping puppies lie!

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
(Email Removed):
Didn't need the half hour, but since the puppy fell asleep, it seemed good to let sleeping puppies lie!

Indeed! And then when they wake up, it's like a whole new start.

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Max the pomeranian
& Rosalie the calico cat
even if he doesn't know why he was there, it kept him away from me at a time when I needed him to be away.

I do something like this when I need to be away from a dog or dogs. If it's one dog, s/he gets a time out in the bathroom, if it's dogs in general, I retreat to my bedroom with the cat.

I've never really had something like that happen before that I felt I needed one or both dogs away for a bit. They usually calm me down if I have trouble in other areas of life. Or even if I am mad at them, they lay next to me and we chill out together while I pet them.
It's good to work on getting over things quickly, but it's also good to separate yourself when you're still upset.

This time I was very upset with Maui almost hurting Cali and her acting scared of him. I don't want her to be afraid of him, I want them to continue to be good friends. I always felt very lucky about how much they enjoy each other but also both bonded to me. Maui was only 1 when I got Cali after all, so it could have been harder. I lucked out, did a few good things and/or didn't screw up too bad.
anyway, he's never been punished/separated for that long and he ended up just sleeping so I don't think he even cared.
http://us.st11.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.com/I/clickerpets 1960 3124773 it was filled with kibble that comes out and dog jerky that doesn't

That's a toy with MULTIPLE treats. Very different from "A" treat. Food toys like that with multiple dogs are just not a great idea IMO. They're rally meant to occupy A dog. You have multiple dogs - they should be occupying each other!

they often play when they need to be occupied but not all the time. they need to be able to play on their own and occupy themselves too, which they are capable of doing. they don't and won't always have me or each other so they need to be ok with that. with my full schedule now (FT work and FT grad school), I got the new toy/treat as a way to make meals last longer and be more enjoyable for them. it gives me a little extra time to entertain them when needed.
they've never had problems before with toy dispensing treats. they even lay right next to each other to eat frozen food from kongs and have even shared the same bone on occasions. they've also eaten off the same plate at the same time or from the same bowl (with high value people food in it). I do also know that just because it hasn't been a problem before doesn't mean it never will be so please don't think that. I am not sure how much of it is the fact that the toy/treat is new or if it has something to do with Maui not being 100% better. I just don't know what happened at that point to change the situation to make it not ok to Maui.
even if he doesn't know why he was there, it ... fully check on Cali and make sure she wasn't hurt.

right. But an hour later? Not so meaningful.

he was fine and not missing much. I was just sitting on my bed reading a school book (and then posting here). what he was doing in the crate (sleeping) would probably have been the same thing he was doing out of it. and the time "alone" with Cali, though not high exciting to her, was a good thing. so, I am ok with my decision to put and keep Maui in the crate. you, on the other hand, don't have to be.
as for even having one, i like to keep it ... keep the furniture clean until I got home from work.

Sorry, but what if you couldn't have a crate? How would you cope with that? Either make sure he isn't getting muddy before work, or deal with him before you leave. Crating him because of a human shortcoming doesn't seem real fair.

I am not perfect. I was gone for about 2 hours and he was fine. He sleeps the entire time I am gone so there was practically no difference to him where he was (a comfy pillow in a crate that he's had since he was a puppy or a bed with no human).
Maui is in the crate about 5 times a year and never for over 3 hours, most times it is for just a few minutes.
I think that sounds like a good idea for Maui. to only get a treat in one spot. any tips for training him this way?

Does he already have a "place" or "bed" command? If not, that's the first step.

i use "bed" for the human bed and he used to know a term for the dog bed but I never used it so he probably doesn't anymore. i don't see a problem with him relearning it quickly though.
I've never really had something like that happen before that I felt I needed one or both dogs away for ... if I am mad at them, they lay next to me and we chill out together while I pet them.

That's why I think it's best for me to take Lucky to the adoption agency and try to get her rehomed. I have found myself losing patience with her and Muttley, and putting her in the crate just for my sanity and convenience. Today I have been able to leave them both with free run of the house and they have mostly just napped. One or the other (or both) sometimes would come to me for some attention, but they have not snarked at each other. When they are getting along like this, I wonder if I could keep them both, but last night they seemed to be fighting. Overall, however, they seem to be better. It's a tough decision, but at least she will not be euthed.
This time I was very upset with Maui almost hurting Cali and her acting scared of him. I don't want ... he's never been punished/separated for that long and he ended up just sleeping so I don't think he even cared.

It seems like my dogs react and do their scary behaviors very quickly, and then calm down and revert to their normal selves as soon as I intervene or change their focus (like taking them out for a walk). But maybe their interactions have not been as severe as you just experienced. That's what scares me, and is a prime reason for me to rehome Lucky and once again be a single dog family. But that is not a real option for you. I wish you luck.

Paul, Muttley and Lucky
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