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Yes, it is caused by the crate, because the only time it occurs is when the dog is crated.

but, if the dog was previously crated with no problems, then surely the crate is only a contributory factor? it seems likely that the underlying cause is the stress of being in a new home (or maybe some other, yet unidentified factor) and that crating only exacerbates it.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
Yes, it is caused by the crate, because the only time it occurs is when the dog is crated.

but, if the dog was previously crated with no problems, then surely the crate is only a contributory factor? it ... stress of being in a new home (or maybe some other, yet unidentified factor) and that crating only exacerbates it.

Having seen over 250 of these dogs, most of which have come through my home, I have a bit of experience with this, and 'd have to disagree. I think it's highly unlikely that the crate is not the cause when the dogs seem perfectly calm at all other times, and the one and only thing that causes any stress or anxiety whatsoever is being crated.

Mustang Sally
The op clearly describes a situation whereby the dog is already showing ancxiety in her crate...
Once the dog has learnt to be calm, then you ... go out, is the only way I'd deal with this.

unless, of course, the dog is even more stressed by being surrounded by strange dogs and being on unfamiliar territory.

Well in the 2 years I've owned a weim, and the 4 + years I've been on weim discussion groups, I think its quite safe to say that for a weimaraner with regard to unfamiliar territory is and strange places, they are more likely to enjoy the mental stimulation and excitement of it all, so thereafter being able to relax and settle more easily.

In general, they are a very up front kind of dog and thrive on new and exciting environments - whereas you'll see on both weim club url's that they state quite clearly that weimaraners do not kennel well (would a dog know different from outside alone in a kennel to inside alone in a kennel?)... and like to be part of a full and active every day life.. maybe some dogs of different breeds/breed types wouldn't like this, but we are discussing a weim who is already upset and messing her cage.
A non alone trained weim will make one hell of a mess of your home. A determined weim in a cage it doesn't want to be in will more than likely get hurt trying to get out - then make a mess of your home.

Diana

Cindy the weimaraner's web site:
http://cindy-incidentally.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk
The op clearly describes a situation whereby the dog is already showing ancxiety in her crate...

your response was to Matt, on the general topic of crating and SA. i replied to it in that vein. you made blanket comments that are not strictly true. if they were true, my dog would be dead.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
Having seen over 250 of these dogs, most of which have come through my home, I have a bit of experience with this, and 'd have to disagree.

i was not challenging your expertise.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
The op clearly describes a situation whereby the dog is already showing ancxiety in her crate...

your response was to Matt, on the general topic of crating and SA. i replied to it in that vein. you made blanket comments that are not strictly true. if they were true, my dog would be dead.

Either way, no matter what dog I had to deal with, I would not leave it in a crate knowing it had anxiety issues until I had worked out what was best for the individual dog by a process of careful observation and then working out a plan to suit the individual dog, because until you know, you don't know and its got to be a far better bet to work with what you know is particular to an individual dog that what you don't.
Diana

Cindy the weimaraner's web site:
http://cindy-incidentally.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk
Either way, no matter what dog I had to deal with, I would not leave it in a crate knowing ... the individual dog by a process of careful observation and then working out a plan to suit the individual dog,

that's a very different statement (and a much smaller blanket) from the one you made previously. it sums up the basic process i went through when i dealt with harriet's separation anxiety. i have always assumed that process would be a given. anything less would be inappropriate.
out of curiosity, do you think that people who have used or do use crates with their SA dogs do so glibly, without going through the above process? if so, it would explain a lot about your attitude toward crating.

shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net
http://cat-sidh.blogspot.com /
that's a very different statement (and a much smaller blanket) from the one you made previously. it sums up ... dealt with harriet's separation anxiety. i have always assumed that process would be a given. anything less would be inappropriate.

I don't get what you mean by 'blanket' statement - I merely stated a fairly well accepted point that crating an anxious dog can compound problems...
out of curiosity, do you think that people who have used or do use crates with their SA dogs do so glibly, without going through the above process? if so, it would explain a lot about your attitude toward crating.

Crates are great, when used with regards to the individual dogs need and when not over used.
The biggest reason I put mine in the shed is because it was ugly and took up too much room in the house - she enjoyed being in it, door closed or open - but she was trained to it from day one. Cin likes to sleep curled up into a tiny cheese, but her cage size is the second largest standard size (without searching out exact dimensions). Cin's a nice size for our home, her cage isn't! )- then I was dumb enough to get a bed too big for her as well, but she loves it Emotion: wink)
It seems to me to be a fair constant that people who come here seeking advice (NOT in anyway referring to the OP of this thread in any way at all) seek it as a free source of information with little other consideration for the advice and help that they seek, but that it be 'free' and it never fails to amaze me how many people I meet in life or who I read of on forums seem to think that because a dog isn't human, it doesn't need or appreciate such comforts as quality food, grooming for social interaction and health care, warm dry shelter and a cuddle - pretty much everything that any social mammal needs to make life worth living.
OK, we all have our variations of a cuddle, but Cin likes to wiggle her butt into people she likes and she seems to accept my hugs as a similar and appreciable offering.
Don't we get sooo many 'we want a dog that'll play with the kids, be obedient, be left out side all day and be happy to sleep outside / in the garage' posts???
Diana

Cindy the weimaraner's web site:
http://cindy-incidentally.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk
sighthounds & siberians (Email Removed) said in
Then we're back to my earlier point that such anxiety isn't caused by the crate which, after all, is just a tool anyway.

Yes, it is caused by the crate, because the only time it occurs is when the dog is crated.

I'm not challenging your expertise either, but if the crate was once used successfully and is later not, how is the crate the problem?

Matt. Rocky's a Dog.
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