I have a pack, yes, a pack of shih tzus. 11 to be exact. They all usually get along fine, but there are times when 2 pairs of the total of 11 just start tearing into each other. They are all spayed and neutered and there is nothing that seems to provoke it. They just start fighting. I have my own war wounds from breaking them up. What is truly baffling about it is there are only these 4 that fight.

The rest of the 11 don't fight. They play and have a big time. The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same litter and a pair of males from the same litter. The females are the most aggressive and vicious. How can I eliminate this behavior from these 4 dogs! I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.
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I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

If I'd known then what I know now, I'd have called a behaviorist immediately when one of my rescue dogs turned out to be a fighter. If you're not able to identify the things that set them off you've got a long road ahead of you to correct the problem, and there's the danger of injury to one or more of the dogs. Occasionally some situations can't be fixed and a professional can help you identify those, as well.
I'd start with some basic work on dog body language, and while Ian Dunbar's stuff on dealing with dog fighting is about problems with strange dogs at least it will give you some guidelines for evaluating how serious the problem is. But really, if you can't see what's setting them off you're not in a position to be able to remedy it.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Bad policies lead to bad results.
Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer, might suggest that the dogs could be confused, as you should be their pack leader and somehow you are not conveying that message to your dogs, so they might be trying to figure out who amongst themselves should be pack leader; you might have two dominant females and two dominant males. I think the fighting will continue until you show them that you are the pack leader. I believe female dominant dogs can be the most aggressive; more so than males.

I have read that dominant females sometimes fight to the death. You could try breaking the fights up with a spray water bottle that you keep handy and just spray their faces with it when they fight. Meanwhile, work on being pack leader. That would be my take on it. If you have ever watched "The Dog Whisperer" TV show on National Geographic or read Cesar Millan's book called "Cesar's Way", he explains how this is done. There is another book out called "The Dog Whisperer", but that is not Cesar Millan's book, although that is the name of his TV show, so don't be confused by the name on the book if you are interested in purchasing a copy.
I think the fighting will continue until you show them that you are the pack leader.

Do you have any first-hand experience in fixing a problem with dogs that fight? It seems to me that a situation in which injury is a highly possible outcome is one in which you ought to take extra care in providing responsible advice. As nearly as I can tell from this post and others, you've never dealt with a serious behavior problem and are just repeating stuff you read in a book without having tried it yourself. Worse, you're doing it without knowing why the dogs are fighting. That's irresponsible in the extreme.

These Millan-ites are just retread Jerry-ites, as nearly as I can see.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Bad policies lead to bad results.
You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you have a big hissyfit and attack them.
Are you supposed to be "The Word"? I am only stating my thoughts; he can take them or leave them.
I have a pack, yes, a pack of shih tzus. 11 to be exact. They all usually get along fine, ... vicious. How can I eliminate this behavior from these 4 dogs! I want to learn something about behaviour modification, here.

Your immediate problem stems from this one little item:
The problem dogs are a pair of females from the same litter and a pair of males from the same litter.


You really couldn't ask for a much worse scenario. Spayed and neutered littermates (or even dogs of the same age) can often be the most aggressive with each other. Which is why, unless you really know what you're doing, you shouldn't generally entertain the idea of keeping two or more littermates together, or even dogs of the same sex and age.
So...why exactly do you have a pack of dogs this large, if you don't really understand much about pack behavior, leadership, etc?

Look, you have several ways of approaching this. First, MANAGE the situation, until you can get the help you need. By MANAGEMENT I mean keep the littermates away from each other. Even if you have to set up two entirely different packs (one littermate in each pack).

Second. Each and every one of your dogs requires OPBEDIENCE TRAINING. But you should begin with the littermates, and get to it ASAP.

Proper OBEDIENCE TRAINING will elevate you to the LEADERSHIP position that you must maintain if you're ever going to successfully deal with a large pack of dogs.
Third. Consider PLACING one of the female and one of the male littermates into other homes. That shouldn't be a problem, as shih tzus are very popular dogs and unusually easy to find good homes for.

Until you do one or more of the things I mentioned above, your situation will only worsen, so I hope that you'll get started with it ASAP.
'kay?
Good luck!

Handsome Jack Morrison
I stand with Israel.
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005547.htm
Two books that every American (and Canadian) should read:
1) The Rage and The Pride, by Orianna Fallacihttp://makeashorterlink.com/?J13521A6D
2) The Force of Reason, by Orianna Fallacihttp://makeashorterlink.com/?T42552A6D
While they still can.
You really must hate Cesar Millan; anytime someone mentions his name you have a big hissyfit and attack them.

I do have a problem with people who have only one tool in their bag whipping out that tool (no pun intended) in response to every problem that comes up. People who only know one thing know nothing. I also have a problem with people who have no experience and no expertise with a potentially devastating problem (letting dog fights escalate can result in the death of one or more dogs) blithely handing out advice, particularly advice that can make things a lot worse.
I think it's swell that you think Cesar is dreamy, but serious problem need serious responses and not "Cesar roolz!" posts.
Are you supposed to be "The Word"? I am only stating my thoughts; he can take them or leave them.

This is a discussion group, and I'm discussing the fact that you don't have a clue how to deal with dogs that fight. Do you think your posts are above reproach?

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Bad policies lead to bad results.
You have a lot of problems.
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