Quick question for Pepper, who is 5 1/2 months old and learning some of the basic obedience exercises. I'd like to start with her in a formal class soon. When I was training Bonnie, I never used the command "stay". If she was sitting and I left, I just left - since "sit" was the last thing I said, she was to remain sitting until I came back or called her. It seemed less confusing to her when she was in the learning stage, dealing with sit and stand, she didn't need another s-word in there.

Eventually I introduced "wait". In competition, if you don't tell your dog to "stay" but instead tell it to "sit", would you be deducted for double commanding? If you say the dog's name (Pepper, sit) is that a deduction? Just curious. It's fun to see how much a young puppy can really do. She has a really impressive moving stand, fun retrieve, and really gets the idea of scent discrimination - three wooden dowels, one smelly and two plain Emotion: smile
Jana
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I never used the command "stay". If she was sitting and I left, I just left - since "sit" was the last thing I said, she was to remain sitting until I came back or called her.

snip
In competition, if you don't tell your dog to "stay" but instead tell it to "sit", would you be deducted for double commanding? If you say the dog's name (Pepper, sit) is that a deduction? Just curious.

My understanding is that in AKC it doesn't matter what you say to the dog. YOu can use words in another language, etc. The one place where you have to give both a signal and a verbal command is in the directed retrieve in Utility. If you use the dog's name you need to say it together with the command, i.e. "Pepper sit." not "Pepper..sit." The second could be considered a double command. As far as not telling the dog to stay many handlers that come over from schutzhund don't tell their dogs to stay. And in the long sit and long down many handlers tell their dogs to sit even though the dogs are sitting after the judge says "Sit your dogs."
Hope this helps some.
beth
I agree with you. "Stay" is a superfluous command. If you say "sit" the dog should sit until told otherwise. If you say "down" the dog should down otherwise. A great way to test your dog to see if it understands it to give them a sit or down before setting down their dinner. My dog just stays there until I say otherwise. . . drool running down and all. I also use that time to give her a couple other commands. One or two is enough. . .I don't want her to die of starvation. Emotion: smile
It's fun to see how much a young puppy can really do. She has a really impressive moving stand, fun retrieve, and really gets the idea of scent discrimination - three wooden dowels, one smelly and two plain Emotion: smile

um, what's a "moving stand"?
-kelly
If she was sitting and I left, I just left - since "sit" was the last thing I said, she was to remain sitting until I came back or called her.

Yep, the rule is that any command is in force until you give another command or a release. Humans are the ones who seem to need a Stay command, not the dogs. I've never figured out why most people feel they need to add a superfluous "Stay" command, but are totally unable to remember to consistently give a release command. Go figure.
In competition, if you don't tell your dog to "stay" but instead tell it to "sit", would you be deducted ... the recall, or more likely, on the DOR. It's fun to see how much a young puppy can really do.

It certainly is! I envy you.
Lynn K.
I agree with you. "Stay" is a superfluous command. If you say "sit" the dog should sit until told otherwise. ... her a couple other commands. One or two is enough. . .I don't want her to die of starvation. Emotion: smile

I use "stay" when feeding the dogs, as I put each of their bowls down I tell them "stay", sometimes they sit sometimes they stand, I don't care as long as they don't go for the food until I say. But I do agree that any sit or down command should tie the dog to that spot until you free it.

Paul
The moving stand and examination is performed like this: From a stationary heel position the Judge will say Forward. After heeling about 10 feet the judge will say "stand your dog". Without stopping or pausing you give the hand signal *or* verbal command of Stand (I just say Stay) and keep walking about 10 feet away then turn and face the dog. The judge will then approach the dog and run their hands over their body, similar to an exam done by conformation judges (testicles are not checked, nor are teeth). The judge will back up and then say "call the dog to heel". You call the dog, but instead of doing a front the dog immediately goes to heel position.

Kristen and
Kali CDX, CGC, TDIA, TT
www.kristenandkali.com
Without stopping or pausing you give the hand signal *or* verbal command of Stand (I just say Stay) and keep walking

Actually, this is a place where it is command and/or signal. I use the signal for stand and say "Stop."
Beth
Quick question for Pepper, who is 5 1/2 months old and learning some of the basic obedience exercises. I'd like ... in the learning stage, dealing with sit and stand, she didn't need another s-word in there. Eventually I introduced "wait".

Your choice, you don't have to give a stay command, ever AFAIK. If you train the dog so you don't need a stay don't use it. I like it as a reminder (you don't get extra points for not using a stay command) when leaving Kali during recalls and the long sit since she can get really distracted in the ring and could start heeling without it especially since we started working on silent heeling for Utility. I don't think the dog gets confused if you have more than one "s" command b/c they sound so different. Sit, had the "i" that can be accentuated and stay one can accentuate the "A".
In competition, if you don't tell your dog to "stay" but instead tell it to "sit", would you be deducted for double commanding?

Which exercise are you talking about, the long sit or recalls or both? Good question, I know a couple judges and will ask them. I would imagine that it is not a double command but is a repeated command, which costs points. Thinking along these lines, for the novice stand, would you want to know if you could repeat the command "stand" instead of saying stay before leaving?

When we line up for the long sit, Kali is already sitting at heel, and the judge says "sit your dog" I think it's always funny that people say Sit to an already sitting dog. I just say stay and then repeat the stay with a hand signal before leaving my lazy dog likes to lie down on her long sit so I like to get that stay command out. I have never been hit for it, but wonder if it's b/c the judge simply can't hear me.
If you say the dog's name (Pepper, sit) is that a deduction?

As someone else noted that whenever a dog's name is used with a command there can be no pause between saying the dogs name and the command that is a double command otherwise you're fine.
Just curious. It's fun to see how much a young puppy can really do. She has a really impressive moving stand, fun retrieve, and really gets the idea of scent discrimination - three wooden dowels, one smelly and two plain Emotion: smile

Awesome!

Kristen and
Kali CDX, CGC, TDIA, TT
www.kristenandkali.com
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