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So, by contrast, what do dogs get? Some (I hope most, but wouldn't count on it) go to a vet ... percentage that seek advice from the Internet (Usenet, mailing lists, web sites and so on) is probably pretty miniscule indeed.

most rescue organizations and decent shelters provide behavioral advice, vet referrals, training referrals (or training), and ongoing support. i would assume good breeders provide the same.
the problem is people who buy from pet stores and boxes on the side of the road. and i haven't got a clue how to reach them...

-kelly
People shouldn't be going to their vets with behavioral issues anyway, that's what trainers and now behaviorists are there to help with.

And how is the average pet owner supposed to find those trainers and behaviorists?

By researching or asking their vet for a referral. My statement was misleading. My point was that people shouldn't expect their vets to be behavioral experts and in turn vets shouldn't be administering advice that is beyond their scope.
To make a long story short, all kids get help. The only contact most pet owners have with someone who can help them is... their vet.

Yes and they should get a referral for a trainer or be told to go to the library or search the net.
So who the heck do you THINK the average pet owner is going to ask for behavioral advice? If they're lucky, the vet will know who the good trainers and behaviorists are, but I've found that they often don't :-(.

Not sure why you're yelling at me since my main point was that behavior is not a part of a vet's qualification. For the OP to suggest that vet's shouldn't be qualified or licensed because they aren't trainers or behaviorists is wrong IMO. As for your points, I agree with all of them. However, the blame for lack of knowledge shouldn't fall to the vet, it should fall to the pet owner and the dog world in general. Trainers don't advertise in highly visible areas. Behaviorists are a relatively new breed of expert and to alot of people "Animal Behaviorist" sounds kooky. People need to figure these things out though. Ask a vet, by all means, but be prepared to learn about the existence of trainers and the likely need to employ one.

Tara
People shouldn't be going to their vets with behavioral issues anyway, that's what trainers and now behaviorists are there to help with.

And how is the average pet owner supposed to find those trainers and behaviorists?

Generally, from their breeder and/or vet.
There's also formal support groups for parents of children of different ages, and parents of kids with special issues

Breeders make great "support groups."
Furthermore, my experience has been that by the time many owners seek help of any kind, they too often have already written the dog off as hopeless :-(.

Which accounts for all those dogs currently sitting in shelters.
To make a long story short, all kids get help. The only contact most pet owners have with someone who can help them is... their vet.

Your vet should be expected to reference good, local trainers/behaviorists, but not solve your dog's "problems" him or herself.
So who the heck do you THINK the average pet owner is going to ask for behavioral advice?

Well, if they'd ask their breeder, I bet ther'd be far fewer dogs sitting in shelters.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Well, if they'd ask their breeder, I bet ther'd be far fewer dogs sitting in shelters.

I think it is a given that people should only get pets from a responsible breeder/rescue/pound. That being said, I wonder what the breakdown of where people get pets from.
Pet stores
Breeders
BYB
Rescue
Pound
I think that Pet Stores and pound probably top the list, with BYB next and breeders/rescue near the bottom. It would be interesting to see some numbers.

**
Marcel Beaudoin & Moogli
**
'SOMEONE RAN OVER THE CAT! Oh, sorry,
didn't know you had bagpipes.'
**
Well, if they'd ask their breeder, I bet ther'd be far fewer dogs sitting in shelters.

I think it is a given that people should only get pets from a responsible breeder/rescue/pound. That being said, I ... Pound I think that Pet Stores and pound probably top the list, with BYB next and breeders/rescue near the bottom.

I think that's the Top Three, too (unfortunately), but not necessarily in that order.
It would be interesting to see some numbers.

Whatever the numbers would show, this much remains indisputable:

It's up to JQP to do the smart thing.
It's not the vet's responsibility, not the breeder's, not the state's, etc.
JQP.
And it's everyone of our jobs to do our best to EDUCATE JQP.

But let's not forget the old saying:
"You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink."

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
misleading. My point was that people shouldn't expect their vets tobe behavioral experts and in turn vets shouldn't be administeringadvice that is beyond their scope.

I'm not expecting a vet to be an expert but some basic knowledge wouldn't go amiss. Jack says they do cover some behaviour but it doesn't seem like it. !
Alison
I'm not expecting a vet to be an expert but some basic knowledge wouldn't go amiss. Jack says they do cover some behaviour but it doesn't seem like it. !

It generally doesn't seem like it because the curriculum usually doesn't get into practical application, just THEORY.

That is, they're taught basic learning theory, behaviorism, etc., they just aren't taught how it applies to actually training a dog.

It's one thing to understand what, say, R- means, it's something else to put it to actual use in training a dog.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
Not really. I would not want to take Moogli to a vet that spentmuch of his

education learning about about dog behaviour(1), as it would mean alack of practice in the cutting and sewing part of ... goes into becoming adog behaviouralist, but I would imagine it is something that is equallyas time-consuming as becoming a vet.

Wow , I was just having a rant , I didnt expect to get this much response.
I didn't mean to suggest that the vet becomes a qualified behaviourist but some behaviour knowledge would help . Jack said they do cover behaviour but I don't know to what extent.

A GP doesn't do surgery but a vet has to be a GP and a surgeon . Also remember that Vets deal out the mood enhancing drugs for behaviour problems so I feel they should have some knowledge . Stress causes illnesses so a vet needs to know the causes of stress to help him treat the pet.
Alison
snip
I think it is a given that people should only get pets from a responsible breeder/rescue/pound. That being said, I wonder what the breakdown of where people get pets from. Pet stores Breeders BYB Rescue Pound

Let's not forget the many people who find dogs alongside the road, or running loose around the neighborhood...
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