Subject: Re: Smelling fear
Date: Monday, April 30, 2007 11:54 PM
Lia,
I don't have an opinion for you about dog's sensing fear in humans. I am curious myself.
I do believe dog's sense fear in other dogs. I had a pack of three dogs quite a few years back. I had a Dobe, St Bernard, and a Chesapeake when this incident happened.I had found a little stray puppy. He was infested with fleas and filthy. I put him up on a table out in the yard to wash him prior to taking him to a local shelter. He was struggling. I put a choke chain on him to gain control of his slippery self. He started squealing like a pig. My dogs came from all over. They had not been paying any attention to him before this happened.

BTW my dogs were all of sound temperament. When they heard that squealing they began to attack him or tried to attack him. I scooped his soapy little self up and ran towards the house with him. I received bruises on my arms where they either bit me or jumped on me to get at him. They did not break the skin. We made it inside safely.
I was devastated that my loyal dogs would go after him not to mention harm me in the process.
My Vet assured me that they sensed fear in that pup and it was their mentality to take advantage and attack him?
Be Free..Judy
==
Yes, exactly, this is what I was talking about above to Paul. I think he has to watch Muttley closely when there are young, active and fearful dogs nearby, as I have noticed that sometimes the mature and more powerful dogs will go after them. I have seen that behavior many times.
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My Vet assured me that they sensed fear in that pup and it was their mentality to take advantage and attack him?

Sounds more like prey behavior, not to mention really sucky bite inhibition and training.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Pfoley,
You are right and I think Paul knows he needs to watch Muttley closely as he like many other dogs would jump at the chance to attack a weak, fearful dog.
Be Free..Judy
Boss, I am sure you know more than my Vet. He was a Vet in a one horse town. He was not a specialist in behavior. If you say what happened was prey drive when my dogs went after the me and the squealing puppy, then prey drive it is.
Two of the dogs had a CDX. Those three dogs were adult dogs, had never had a skirmish between themselves and never gone after another creature that I am aware of in their lives. The Chessie would chew up any inanimate object short of stainless steel even as an adult However, she never showed any sign of aggression to humans or animals.. I spent hours working my dogs in obedience. I guess you are not quite as wise and wonderful as you think you are.
How can you analyze dogs via the internet when you couldn't even eyeball Muttley?
Thanks for your meaningless input.
Be Free..Judy
Pfoley, You are right and I think Paul knows he needs to watch Muttley closely as he like many other dogs would jump at the chance to attack a weak, fearful dog. Be Free..Judy

Yes, I am very cautious, but I have allowed Muttley to interact with other dogs, and people young and old. I don't really see him as being vicious or dangerous, but I know he has the potential to do a lot of damage. On the trail, other dogs snarked at him; he did not initiate anything or even react aggressively. He only seemed to want to play with my neighbor's tiny dog "Bug", and he seemed OK with me petting him. He also passed the usual aggression tests at the shelter where he was briefly, AFAIK.

I wish some of the people here could actually meet him. Janet is the only one with that experience, and his aggressive behavior only happened in her class, after she had evaluated and observed him to be nice enough, except for poor leash manners. Now she freaks out at the possibility of meeting him again.
Maybe I just have a hard time communicating with some of the people here. But I think it is their problem if they want to read the worst from what I write, or choose to killfile me and then get all their information from their cronies who snip out what they don't find dramatic enough for their hysteria, and then engage in a henfest, picking and pecking at whatever fuels their fancy. It is sad that some people must continue to use negativity to enrich their poor lives.
Paul and Muttley
I wish some of the people here could actually meet him. Janet is the only one with that experience, and ... to be nice enough, except for poor leash manners. Now she freaks out at the possibility of meeting him again.

You still don't get it. It's not Muttley as much as the HANDLING 9or lack of) of Muttley.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
Boss, I am sure you know more than my Vet.

My name is Janet. USe it or wind up in my killfile.
He was a Vet in a one horse town. He was not a specialist in behavior.

As most vets are not. his assessment is off the mark.
If you say what happened was prey drive when my dogs went after the me and the squealing puppy, then prey drive it is. Two of the dogs had a CDX.

Wonderful (and somehow I'm not buying it) But no life skills.
I spent hours working my dogs in obedience. I guess you are not quite as wise and wonderful as you think you are.

Actually, I'd say you didn't work them enough where it counted.
How can you analyze dogs via the internet when you couldn't even eyeball Muttley? Thanks for your meaningless input.

Once again, the dog is not the major problem.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
I wish some of the people here could actually meet him. Janet is the only one with that experience, and ... to be nice enough, except for poor leash manners. Now she freaks out at the possibility of meeting him again.

Didn't it also happen once in your house and another time at a dog trail somewhere?? In any case, Janet has every right to be afraid of meeting you and Muttley. From her personal experience (and not wanting to put words in her mouth), Muttley is uncontrolled and has an unknown about of dog-dog and (possibly) dog-human aggression in him. The trigger(s) (big dogs, little dogs, fuzzy dogs, nekkid dogs or something else) is (are) unknown to her and you.
In other words, she doesn't know what sets Muttley off. She can't predict what he will do. She can't predict what you have done, or what you will do if Muttley attacks again. That is, IMO, what scares a lot of people in RFD.
Maybe I just have a hard time communicating with some of the people here.

Personally I think the problem is that when you first arrived here, your story changed several times over what happened, and you refuse to take responsibility for what Muttley did. "The other dog looked at him wrong." "He was stressed by the situation." "He sensed my stress."
Marcel
She can't predict what you have done, or what you will do if Muttley attacks again. That is, IMO, what scares a lot of people in RFD.

Based on past behavior, one might predict that Paul will drop the leash.
Personally I think the problem is that when you first arrived here, your story changed several times over what happened, ... what Muttley did. "The other dog looked at him wrong." "He was stressed by the situation." "He sensed my stress."

Yes, and his story was tailored to the audience. What he presented here was not the same story he presented elsewhere. One might assume his choice of words is an unfortunate accident, but I tend to think it is absolutely deliberate, and that Paul means to get the reaction he receives.

Shelly
http://www.cat-sidh.net (the Mother Ship)
http://esther.cat-sidh.net (Letters to Esther)
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