Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people. The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and movement of an animal.
They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their 5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in many cases they probably ARE the same people.
I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a dog show one time, where I noted some of the pettiest cattiness and bad sportsmanship I've ever seen. Funny seeing these predominantly Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.

So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take a dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled up in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the way?
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Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat ... Chow isn't going to get tangledup in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of theway?

It's not dog show people that bother me. Some are like the stereotype you describe, and others are quite nice. It's the DOGS at typical AKC-type conformation shows that bother me. They don't behave like dogs. It's as if they are all on Valium. It's not like they're just being obedient. There is a dullness to the eyes, a disinterest in everything around them.
Whenever I have taken any of my dogs to see one of these shows, my dog starts out excited about all the dogs. Then, as she is ignored by them, and she observes/sniffs/talks with them, she'll get upset, the tail goes down, and she tries to drag me out of the show. Spooky dogs bother her.
David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html
You're both right and both wrong.
First, unentered dogs should not be at the show. Period. We have to sign a statement in the entry process verifying that our dogs' immunizations are up to date... and although I feel sure that your dogs shots are up to date.. there are others.. We can be required to show proof of this... for instance, the rabies certificate signed by the vet... Most indoor sites, and some outdoor sites are quite crowded; additional, possibly untrained, dogs are a potential problem. If our dogs attack others or threaten someone, they can be outta the sport.

"Valium".. Hm, if we get caught drugging dogs to change behavior while at a show site, we're out..
Dogs that appear to be disconnected.. Not. They are like athletes preparing to perform... concentrating on their manners and getting psyched up to go in and show off
While many of these dogs don't take part in other canine sports, most are house pets first (unless out with professional handlers) and show dogs second. Two weekends ago there were terrier/dachshund Earthdog tests within a short drive of a dog show. A good number of the show dogs participated in both on the same day. Earthdog is an underground sport.. nt illicit, but under the surface of the ground... low down and dirty. Many of the show dogs go on to participate in other canine sports once they end a show career, or participate in performance events on other weekends. Did you know that Standard Poodles (coats trimmed down) participate in retriever field trials and hunting tests?

I think if you knew what was going on better than you do now, your perspective would change somewhat. If a dog is not of correct structure and doesn't have a correct coat and other features, it can't perform it's job properly; the judges at a dog show are simply evaluating these dog's physical features.
The people who particpate in dog shows are no different than people who participate in other sports without dogs. Just listen the next time you attend some event.. especially kids' sports, where the parents are the worst behaved of those present. We can be shut out of the show or the sport for showing poor sportsmanship.
You have only seen the surface..
Jo Wolf
Martinez, Georgia
You're both right and both wrong. First, unentered dogs should not be at the show. Period. We haveto sign a ... possibly untrained, dogs are a potential problem. Ifour dogs attack others or threaten someone, they can be outta the sport.

Most of the AKC shows I've been to were outdoor events, and no one ever questioned me about Sheba, my Staffie. But she looks like a show dog. I don't bring Starr, the Pit Bull or Snuggles, the American Bulldog. Starr would never understand why the dogs don't want to play with her, and Snuggles is NOT GOOD with stranger dogs, as in she'll look for the biggest dog she can find and start a fight.
"Valium".. Hm, if we get caught drugging dogs to change behaviorwhile at a show site, we're out..

You're kidding, right? You think doping could not occur without being discovered? How, exactly, are they going to catch you?
Dogs that appear to be disconnected.. Not. They are like athletes preparing to perform... concentrating on their manners and getting psyched up to go in and show off

I'm sorry, I'm sure you like to believe this quaint anthropomorphic fantasy, but this is total bull feces. Your dog is not preparing to do anything. It's going to do what it has been well-trained to do, and will most likely enjoy doing it, but it is not psyching itself up or any other human characteristic. It's just being a dog, thinking like a dog, and attributing anything else to it is an insult to the dog. If a dog was a little person in a fur coat, it would be a hideously ugly, profoundly retarded person. It's greatness is in the fact that it is a dog.
While many of these dogs don't take part in other canine sports,most are house pets first (unless out with professional ... performanceevents on other weekends. Did you know that Standard Poodles (coatstrimmed down) participate in retriever field trials and hunting tests?

And none of that explains the zombie-like behavior of these dogs at conformation shows. If anything, it adds weight to the drugged theory (which I don't actually believe is happening a lot, just what it looks like).
I think if you knew what was going on better than you do now, your perspective would change somewhat. If ... other features, it can't perform it's job properly; the judges at a dog show are simply evaluatingthese dog's physical features.

Do you seriously believe that conformation standards, and the dogs that eventually result from years of selective breeding to meet those standards, has ANYTHING to do with actual work the dog is supposed to perform? Top show dogs that can perform at their job at any reasonable level of ability are wonderful and exceptional.
The people who particpate in dog shows are no different than peoplewho participate in other sports without dogs. Just listen ... can be shut out of the show orthe sport for showing poor sportsmanship. You have only seen the surface..

Hey, I saw the movie "Best In Show". That was a documentary, right Emotion: smile

David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html
Seeing this post Macy's Parade dog show, it reminds me that there's something very strange about the psychology of dog/cat show people. The control-freakism of fixation on the physical form, stance and movement of an animal.

I wouldn't call it control freakism. It's breeding for proper type and movement. A dog that doesn't move properly will break down orthopedically later in life, especially if the dog is used for it's breed's original purpose (hunting, herding, guarding, etc.)
They seem to be first cousins to the people who gussie up their 5-year-olds like hookers for child beauty pageants. I suspect in many cases they probably ARE the same people.

Depends on the breed and the breeder. I can guarantee you that I spend less than 10 minutes prepping my dogs to go in the ring (obedience OR conformation) unless they've made a mess of themselves or another dog has done that for me. It's not unheard of for males to mark occupied crates. If a Lab can't be shown naturally, it shouldn't be shown.
I dated a girl for a while who raised Great Danes. She took me to a dog show one time, ... predominantly Dr./Lawyer types having a tantrum when their coifed little Purina converter didn't place the way they felt it deserved.

Yep. It's kinda funny. But when was the last time you heard of a parent being fined $500 for yelling at the judge, AND having ALL their children kicked out of the sport for 3 months (or more) or until they paid the fine?
So what do they do when one of these long haired breeds has to take a dump? There's no way processed Dog Chow isn't going to get tangled up in the all the hair. Does mommy hold their butt locks out of the way?

Most show people carefully time when they feed their dogs to keep them from having to do so. But most breeds really don't make a mess of themselves when they "go." A dog like that would be a PITA to live with.

Emily Carroll
Dealing 80s Toys - Rainbow Brite - My Little Pony - More Fluttervale Labradors: www.geocities.com/diamonds in her eyes/dogs/ CPG: www.geocities.com/cyberpetgame/
4-H Club: www.geocities.com/woofsandwiggles/
Most of the AKC shows I've been to were outdoor events, and no one ever questioned me about Sheba, my Staffie. But she looks like a show dog.

Most shows I've attended have required me to show proof of all dogs in my vehicle being entered.
You're kidding, right? You think doping could not occur without being discovered? How, exactly, are they going to catch you?

Well, if I suspected, say, you, of doping your dog, all I would have to do was complain to the show committee and they'd hold a bench hearing which could be discontinued until further proof.
I'm sorry, I'm sure you like to believe this quaint anthropomorphic fantasy, but this is total bull feces. Your dog ... adds weight to the drugged theory (which I don't actually believe is happening a lot, just what it looks like).

I think the "well trained" theory works a bit better than the drugged theory.
The show dogs I know privately are most definitely not zombies, just well-trained dogs that can relax outside of the show setting and be goofballs. Some dogs will cue off their handler's or owner's nervousness and spend a lot of time staring at their owner.
Do you seriously believe that conformation standards, and the dogs that eventually result from years of selective breeding to meet ... perform? Top show dogs that can perform at their job at any reasonable level of ability are wonderful and exceptional.

A dog that is not built to run 20 miles in a day is not going to be able to perform as a pointer/setter. A show dog is built to perform as perfectly as possible. Whether the brains and owner initiative are included is another question.
Hey, I saw the movie "Best In Show". That was a documentary, right Emotion: smile

Depends on who you talk to Emotion: smile I've met people that more than exemplify the characters in that movie. But most of the people are no wierder than anyone in any other given sport.
~Emily
snip

It's too bad that you both feel this way, when obviously you don't really know what showing dogs is really all about.
Oh yes, I have seen some bad sportsmanship at dog shows over the last 50 something years, but not nearly as much as in other sports. Not nearly as much!!Those who compete regularly in dog shows "train" their dogs to not become distracted and keep their eye on the handler - whether it is an owner or a professional handler. The Judge doesn't have time to wait while someone "tries" to get their dog to behave in the ring. The handler must set the dog up so that the judge may have a good look at his conformation. An out of control dog, jumping about and sniffing at another dog, not only upsets other dogs, but loses his chances of being seen properly by the Judge.

It's expensive to show dogs, so obviously one must try to get the dog to stand properly when stacked since we really have very little time in the ring when the judge can have a good look at him. Maybe this is why you feel they have a "disinterest" in everything around them. In the ring we want our dogs to keep their eye on us if possible and "not" become distracted. As for "a dullness of eye" - well I guess you haven't seen many showdogs at home. You haven't seen them waiting by the front door hoping the crates you are loading into the van, is for them.

You haven't seen them competing in herding trials, or obedience trials, or fly ball or any of the other things many show people do with their dogs.
Save your pity my friend, for the dogs who are purchased, placed in the backyard with little or not human interaction, seldom if ever groomed, fed only when someone remembers, often chained to a dog house with no soft bed and never actually trained to do anything fun. Dogs, in case you didn't know it, like to have something to do. The like to learn. They like to be part of some activity. Many backyard dogs are seldom taken to the vet when ill and spend their lives alone only to become habitual barkers and then when a neighbour complains, dumped at the local shelter to face the gas chamber! You might want to attend a few dog show "without" your dog and learn what it's really all about before passing some rather unknowledgeable judgement. EGD
It's too bad that you both feel this way, when obviously you don'treally know what showing dogs is really all ... attend a few dog show "without" your dog and learnwhat it's really all about before passing some rather unknowledgeablejudgement. EGD

If you're done ranting now...nothing above has anything to do with my observation. I was obviously not talking about the dogs in the ring. I would expect them to behave as trained. It's the dogs outside the ring, waiting for their turn, or just being walked a bit, or whatever, that are, many of them, zombie-like. Would you care to address that, or is another rant in the offing?
David
www.geocities.com/sammiesdad/dogs.html
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