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so you trust someone you know nothing about, someone you found on the internet, more than a professional dog trainer? how odd. -kelly

Not odd really, if you trust your instincts and have the confidence to try some thing that you believe in and can relate to. I tried 4 pro trainers, non of them "connected" with me, I found more "direction" on the net than any trainer provided me, I learnt to think through my own solutions and learnt to really communicate with the dogs, the pro trainers were really only interested in getting "results" so I'd think my hard earned cash was well spent, where as on the Net I learnt to think things through and achieve a communication with the dogs.
It doesn't matter that you know nothing about someone, if you you have half a brain what you read of them will soon tell you if they know their subject.

Paul
ditto, but at least you can observe them before you make that >decision.

True, but you CAN figure out, in most cases, whether people in here have a clue or not after being around for a bit.
And in RL, I disagree with plenty of professional trainers, even very good ones, on some points. I'm always open to having my opinions changed, but not until seeing that the method works with MY DOG. (IOW, until I give it a try and see whether or not it works for us.)
Work on the dog holding a stand separately

Actually, what Scott's doing - if I understand him correctly- is saying "stay" while the dog is MOVING, and wanting her to stop, stand, and stay.
I'm a little confused because it sounds like you're equating Stay with Stand.

As I said in another post, if I understood correctly what he's trying to do, he's actually equating "Stay" with "Wait". IOW the dog is moving, and he's wanting her to stop, stand, and wait for a release.
correct
Interesting, I never thought to work on holding a stand.

Think about Stay as reminding the dog to hold a position you've put her into. The problem you're having is that your dog doesn't recognize Stand as a position that has been taught in the same way that you taught her Sit or Down. That, and the fact that she's not in a stationary position when you're asking her to Stay in the scenario you describe.
Command words are meaningless, of course, but you are using Stay to mean 2 things that feel very different to a dog: keep holding a frozen position, and temporarily pause forward movement until I release you. Like Sarah, I use Wait for the second one.

You are far from the only human to do make this mistake. There are actually 4 different scenarios that humans tend to use Stay to cover, but they are very different to dogs and should be separate command words:
- Keep holding a Sit, Down or Stand position (Stay) - Stop moving forward until I tell you you can Emotion: wait - Stay within the perimeter of a surface (Place, Bed, Rug, Mat, etc.) - I'm leaving, but will return (See ya, I'll be back, Later, or some other cue phrase)
See how different they are from the dog's point of view? Nobody really expects their dog to not move a muscle the whole time they are gone working, yet I consistently hear people tell their dogs to Stay as they walk out the door. No wonder the poor beast get confused!

Lynn K.
Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice and Open Triple Superiors, EAC, O-EJC Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, O-NAC, O-NGC, O-OAC NGTG, OGTG

we can be seen at: and
Command words are meaningless, of course, but you are using Stay to mean 2 things that feel very different to a dog:

Exactly- I think Lynn's said it a bit clearer than I did (and in way less words, too ).
Like Sarah, I use Wait for the second one.

In case that's got you confused, I'm Sarah. :-)
There's a further distinction that my dogs have; "Stay" is normally used when I am moving away from them, and will return and release them- though occasionally I will call them from a stay. In addition to meaning "stay here until I release you", it also carries the connotation of settling down where I've left them.
"Wait" is a more temporary command, and is normally going to be followed by a release into action, not simply being allowed to get up and move.

Which is why I use "Wait", not "Stay", on the agility startline.
Command words are meaningless, of course, but you are using Stay to mean 2 things that feel very different to a dog:

Exactly- I think Lynn's said it a bit clearer than I did (and in way less words, too ).
Like Sarah, I use Wait for the second one.

In case that's got you confused, I'm Sarah. :-)
There's a further distinction that my dogs have; "Stay" is normally used when I am moving away from them, and will return and release them- though occasionally I will call them from a stay. In addition to meaning "stay here until I release you", it also carries the connotation of settling down where I've left them.
"Wait" is a more temporary command, and is normally going to be followed by a release into action, not simply being allowed to get up and move.

Which is why I use "Wait", not "Stay", on the agility startline.

Sarah
Brenin, CGC, AD, O-EAC-V, O-EJC-V, EGC
Gwydion, Handy Cat
Morag Thistledown, Novice and Open Triple Superiors, EAC, O-EJC Robyn Meezer, Inspector of Human Activity
Rocsi Cadarn, S-NJC, O-NAC, O-NGC, S-OJC; NGTG, OGTG

we can be seen at: and
There's a further distinction that my dogs have; "Stay" is normally used when I am moving away from them, and ... simply being allowed to get up and move. Which is why I use "Wait", not "Stay", on the agility startline.

I use stay on the start line. "Stay" means hold position till I tell you to do somethig different.
Hunter and Wallace have Stand, sit and down stays. I really don't need to use the stay command, so I just used a verbal.

I did have to slightly retrain Hunters stays - I use to leave him on stays while I taught, and he learned stay = stay in one spot, but I didn't care if he went down or not.
Seems to have been successful, he just picked up his first novice leg (first time in). Emotion: smile
The only dog I have had stay issues with does all the stupid BC tricks - crouching/hovering on the table, anticipating, downing... With her it's primarily a personality think - she has a very hard time holding still, period.
She has yet to break a stay in competetion, but it takes a lot of reinforcement.

Melissa S. Frye
Skyrocket cockers www.mfrye.com/skyrocket/
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