being relatively new to dog ownership my eyes have been opened to a whole range of 'products' out there that seem positively evil!

choke chains, nasty sprays, prisons (aka crates), electric shock stuff and more besides!!
Why on earth would anyone own a dog and then subject it to that kind of stuff. If you feel it necessary to 'control' the dog with that stuff then i can only ask why you have a dog in the first place.

tell me you don't actually do this stuff to your dogs, folks! I hope not to offend folk here, but really!
Incidently, ours: 2 older crossbreeds (lab/lurcher? it doesnt really matter), dumped in a rescue home supposedly for being 'chew and poo' dogs in the home, no problems at all with us, probably reason - they're not stressed out so they don't bother.
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being relatively new to dog ownership

Oh, good.

Melinda Shore - Software longa, hardware brevis - (Email Removed)

Since January 2001 the federal budget outlook for 2002-2011 has deteriorated by $8.8 trillion.
tell me you don't actually do this stuff to your dogs, folks!


ooh, ooh, i do! i do!
-kelly
being relatively new to dog ownership my eyes have been opened to a whole range of 'products' out there that seem positively evil!

There's no reason why you should use any product with your dogs that you are uncomfortable about. There's also no reason why you should worry about other people's proper use of tools that you choose not to use. Just accept that you don't know enough about them to form any informed opinion and go on with your happy life with your own dogs.

Lynn K.
ooh, ooh, i do! i do!

That's because you are mean and e-ville

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being relatively new to dog ownership my eyes have been opened to a whole range of 'products' out there that seem positively evil!

Hi I'll welcome you to the group, I have only posted here a few times, there is lots of interesting stuff to read though
choke chains, nasty sprays, prisons (aka crates), electric shock stuff and more besides!! Why on earth would anyone own a ... me you don't actually do this stuff to your dogs, folks! I hope not to offend folk here, but really!

Luckily in Australia e-collars are banned, moves are being made to ban choke chains, with some training groups already refusing to use them in their classes.
Things are getting better regarding the cruelty to dogs, as people explore more positive methods of training hopefully most of those things will be in the past.. Like tail docking, also recently banned in Australia
Incidently, ours: 2 older crossbreeds (lab/lurcher? it doesnt really matter), dumped in a rescue home supposedly for being 'chew and poo' dogs in the home, no problems at all with us, probably reason - they're not stressed out so they don't bother.

It's nice to hear about dogs finding wonderful careing homes

cheers,
Dianna
Luckily in Australia e-collars are banned,

Why? Improper use? Or has Australia moved to the camp of lets give Prozac to every dog that doesn't behave so so?
moves are being made to ban choke chains, with some training groups already refusing to use them in their classes. ... of training hopefully most of those things will be in the past.. Like tail docking, also recently banned in Australia

Please define cruelty and how choke chains used properly could remotely be cruel. Improper is one thing but a regular buckle collar can certainly be used improperly and cruelly. In fact in that mindset I would say that placing any collar and leash on a dog should be regarded as cruel. They should run free, and be free spirits after all. Why use a collar period.
It isn't the tool that is cruel, but the handler/person behind that tool. JMO
Gwen
Honestly, of all the tools you named, the choke chain, which is the most "acceptable" by John Q Public, is the worst. It's the one most likely to be abused, and the one most likely to result in long-term damage.

and IMO none of the things on the OP's "list" are as potentially abusive as plain old bad handling. you can do an awful lot of damage with nothing but your own two hands and voice.
No, many owners keep the dogs in crates when they're at work. And that's perfectly acceptable in adult dogs. Remember that dogs are denning creatures. The crate is a safe cocoon for them.

yep. harriet had SA when she was younger. it took a couple of years to get her to where she could be left alone for any length of time. if i hadn't used a crate, she'd still be suffering with SA. now, she can be left alone. guess what one of her favorite places to hang out is, though? yep, her crate, especially when i'm working on the computer or doing something she can't "supervise."
We stop at least every 4 or 5 hours on long trips to stretch legs, do a bit of a run, etc. They sleep in the car. The whole time. Never a peep, and if I look at them, they're out cold, snoring.

ditto. i don't travel much with elliott, but harriet loves to go on long car trips. she's perfectly comfortable in the car, and spends most of the time curled up, asleep. in fact, i'm considering taking her to Minnesota this fall. it's a 12ish hour trip and i don't envision any problems. i'm sure she'll thoroughly enjoy herself.

shelly (perfectly foul wench) and elliott and harriet http://home.bluemarble.net/~scouvrette
ditto. i don't travel much with elliott, but harriet loves to go on long car trips. she's perfectly comfortable in ... Minnesota this fall. it's a 12ish hour trip and i don't envision any problems. i'm sure she'll thoroughly enjoy herself.

Heh. What is it with dogs and cars?? Moogli can be levitating and running along the ceiling at home, but if we take him into the car like that, he is passed out asleep in 5 minutes or less.
Marcel
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