Greetings:
I keep feeling that I would like a toy dog whom I could carry with me everywhere. It's a slightly nutty idea and so I am mostly fighting it, but I am wondering about those of you who have combined toy dogs with other, larger breeds. (I almost put "ping Melanie" in the title because I know she has this situation, and because papillons are a particular favorite of mine.)
I think Zoe would be fine (although I'm concerned that she would be overly jealous of a lap dog) but Queenie can be a big oaf at times (a dear, sweet, joy of a big oaf, that is). Would it be a singularly bad idea to throw her together with a toy dog?
Would the toy breed make much of a difference?
If you don't think a toy is the way to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle?
Thanks.

Catherine
& Zoe the cockerchow
& Queenie the black gold retriever
& Rosalie the calico
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Would the toy breed make much of a difference? If you don't think a toy is the way to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle?

Mixed report here. We have two 8-lb chihuahuas and a 78 lb yellow lab. And we had a 72 lb GSD until she died last May. The chihuahuas, Gordo and Chile, were nearly three when we got Dylan (GSD), and five when we got Oppie (Lab).
The chihuahuas never took to the big dogs, although the big dogs were quite friendly and mostly gentle with them. They eventually evolved an "understanding" with the big dogs (stay out of our faces!) and would play a bit with them - mostly when Dylan would entice them to chase her. We wonder if the situation would have been different if we'd gotten the big dogs first.
In terms of safety - Dylan was extremely gentle with them. Sometimes we saw her trying to entice one of them to play, by very gently pawing his rear. (The gesture wasn't appreciated.)

Oppie is also very gentle - except when he gets excited, and then he turns into a clumsy moose. Gordo and Chile learned to stay out of his way when he gets excited (he's never injured them), and up until about a year ago, they could always escape onto the furniture (forbidden territory for the big dogs). Now that they're over 14, they can't manage the jump - but then, Oppie has calmed down considerably, too.
Upshot: I love the qualities of both the big and small dogs, but if I were to do it again, I'd get the big dogs first and only get the small ones after the big ones were adult and well-trained. The big ones (at least ours) have always been more accepting of other dogs, and we wonder if the chihuahuas would have been more so if big dogs were part of the territory when the little guys came into our house as puppies.
My 2 cents.
FurPaw

"...curious...that women would move from playing with Barbie to denouncing Barbie to remaking themselves as Barbie." Maureen Dowd, Are Men Necessary?
To reply, unleash the dog
I think Zoe would be fine (although I'm concerned that she would be overly jealous of a lap dog) but ... singularly bad idea to throw her together with a toy dog? Would the toy breed make much of a difference?

It sort of depends. I just added a toy (Min Pin) to my crew. Cala is imipulsive and likes to use her feet, but 2 weeks in things are going super well. I do think it does matter in part what breed you get. The friends who provided Zipper kept telling me Min Pins are sturdy. They're also fast little buggers and he's learned how to dodge right quick. Apparently some Min Pins do break legs, but they said they'd only had two dogs that had ever done that, both from the same litter, and they felt it might have been genetic. So far this little *** has climbed out of his expen with no penalty other than his expen now has a top.
If you don't think a toy is the way to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle?

Minis are nice dogs. I don't like Toy poodles. I'd also avoid IGs, they really are quite fragile. You might look at Toy Fox, small Rat Terriers, Pugs, and Paps too but I'm not sure about their frailty, they seem pretty fragile.
If you don't think a toy is the way to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle?[/nq]Miniature poodles are still small enough to take around with you everywhere. My seven year old carries Sammie all over the place. I have been afraid at times that he will forget how to walk on his own. When I pick him up, he's light enough that he's barely noticeable. He gets along great with the big dogs, though if they weren't gentle with him he would have some problems as he can't fend off a hundred pounds of dog. He's pretty sturdy and agile, though, so he holds his own when there are accidental mishaps and the big dogs respond immediately to a protest from him so it all works out fine.

I think there is a difference between the toy and the mini. Anna's chihuahua is actually big for a chi (she's probably a mix). She is actually about the same size as Sammie, but she doesn't hold up nearly as well. She doesn't like the other dogs as well because she is a chi. She is also somewhat more delicate structurally and a lot less agile so I worry more about what would happen if she did get into a wrestling match with the big dogs. I would think that a foster situation would help you to see how the little dog you might be interested in would work with your big dogs.

I would definitely try it out first because of the disparate size that can create dangers. But it shouldn't take long to see how it goes. When I first introduced Molly and Sammie, one paw swipe from Molly made Sammie duck and yelp and from that point forward, Molly has only muzzle wrestled with him, never lifting a paw. OTOH, we had a foster here who would continue to try to paw him and wrestle as if he were more her size.

Paula
Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.
Would the toy breed make much of a difference? If ... to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle?

Mixed report here. We have two 8-lb chihuahuas and a 78 lb yellow lab. And we had a 72 lb ... them to chase her. We wonder if the situation would have been different if we'd gotten the big dogs first.

I'm wondering if it's a chihuahua thing. Our chi gets really bent out of shape when the big dogs are even wrestling each other. She runs in and tells them off in no uncertain terms, getting more and more vehement the more they ignore her and keep wrestling. She just has no use for big dogs. Sammie the mini poodle, OTOH, handled the whole brother to big dogs thing by just assuming he is one of them rather than above them and completely disgusted that they have a place in this world, never mind her household.

Paula
Persons with names like Sierra, Sequoia, Auburn, and Rainbow can't sing the Blues no matter how many men they shoot in Memphis.
Greetings: I keep feeling that I would like a toy dog whom I could carry with me everywhere. It's a ... If you don't think a toy is the way to go, how would you feel about a miniature poodle? Thanks.

Can't really help since I never owned a big dog but if you lived any closer, I could hook you up with a great pup. My brother had to get rid of his dog Lucy but the woman who took it now decided she couldn't keep it long term either. It is currently living with a relative of the woman. Poor pup is probably very confused as she has had 4 different homes already and she's not even 1 year old (I think she's about 7 months old). Anyway, she's a great dog, good with kids and housebroken too.
Minis are nice dogs. I don't like Toy poodles. I'd also avoid IGs, they really are quite fragile. You might look at Toy Fox, small Rat Terriers, Pugs, and Paps too but I'm not sure about their frailty, they seem pretty fragile.

Other than size, what is the difference between mini and toy poodles?
Skeeter is a little more ballsy than your average toy dog and mixes very well with the Border Collies. The only times he has been in danger were when he took the initiative to attack Solo (we have since resolved his originally, um, interesting resource guarding issues). Solo for the most part totally ignores him, and occasionally plays with him. Fly plays with him. Most Skeeter does the things tiny dogs are great at shadowing me everywhere, and sleeping in the bed. Under the covers.

I think it depends more on individual personalities than size of dog. If Skeeter were less respectful of larger dogs it wouldn't work out with Solo, but since he's very deferential to Solo everything is fine. The one management thing that I do with respect to Skeeter's size is crate him when I am not home, because he is so much smaller than the other two that if a disagreement did occur while I was out, it is possible he could be severely hurt even if the others did not intend it.

I do think that if you want a tote-along dog you want to stay under 10 pounds, and closer to five if possible. Harley weighed just over 10, and was heavy enough to be, well, heavy at times (but since she was Harley, of course, she was never inconvenient). Skeeter weighs seven pounds and if he's in a tote bag I can barely feel him on my shoulder. If he were even smaller I could just stick him inside my coat. He's a decent size for a Papillon, just over 12" at the shoulder. (Which means, yes, that he runs in the Sheltie-size class in agility. Great.)
Be warned that going from two dogs to three is nothing like going from one to two. Three dogs is a pack, even if one is small. Three dogs makes you look like a dog walker. But, it also means no one is ever left at home alone, unless you are sadistic enough to take two and leave one (I have considered doing this on herding days, but haven't had the heart to do it to Skeeter, even though he gets bored waiting in the car).
I can't really recommend breeds, because there are literally only two toy breeds of dog that I like, and I don't even like the well-bred representatives of one of them. If I could have another Pom like Harley I'd do it in a heartbeat, but I've never seen one in rescue that could hold a candle to her, and the breed ring dogs look like wind-up toys to me with tiny Chow faces, which are fine on Chows, but which I don't like on Poms. I have no idea if Skeeter is a typical Papillon, as he is from a puppy mill and I only know one other Pap well (a retired breed ring dog who is nothing like Skeeter personality-wise).

I will say that I really like the way the breed ring Papillons look, though, and it does seem like there are more breeders out there than in Poms who are actually doing stuff with their dogs like sports or obedience. That said, all things being equal, I'd rather have a Pom. I like their coats and they are much more robust than Papillons are.
If I were you I'd probably just look for "small" and let fate take care of the rest. Or, if you're like me, you won't look for another dog at all, and someone will offer you a little one, and you'll say, "What the hell" and end up with Dog #3.

Melanie Lee Chang * (Email Removed)
Canine Behavioral Genetics Project
University of California, San Francisco
http://psych.ucsf.edu/K9BehavioralGenetics/
Most Skeeter does the things tiny dogs are great at shadowing me everywhere, and sleeping in the bed. Under the covers.

Zipper thinks all covers must.be.burrowed. He loves to burrow under, usually at warp speed with lots of flopping. He wants to sleep on my feet. So far no go as far as sleeping with me, he's too little I'm afraid I'll kick him. Maybe when he's a bit older.
The one management thing that I do with respect to Skeeter's size is crate him when I am not home, ... while I was out, it is possible he could be severely hurt even if the others did not intend it.

I am not sure I'll ever be able to leave Zip loose. Cala's the only dog let loose now, and though she likes him, like you say, she's just a lot bigger.
Skeeter weighs seven pounds and if he's in a tote bag I can barely feel him on my shoulder. If ... Papillon, just over 12" at the shoulder. (Which means, yes, that he runs in the Sheltie-size class in agility. Great.)

Not really, or at least not AKC except for tiny shelties. Of which there are some of course. But most Shelties jump 16, not 12. I don't know how much Zip will weigh or hot tall he'll get. I'm sort of hoping right at 12-12.5" so he can be shown in conformation. Though right now he's in the body-uglies, long and tubey.
I will say that I really like the way the breed ring Papillons look, though, and it does seem like ... being equal, I'd rather have a Pom. I like their coats and they are much more robust than Papillons are.

Paps are seriously cool little dogs and there are lots of top pap working people. Far less so in Poms. And I'm not sure they're that much more robust than Paps either. I like Poms, they're very sweet dogs. But not as functional.
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