does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not the other?

i read. a lot. i do research. i'm extremely observant and an intuitive learner. i've read a dozen good books (and a hundred web sites) on dog training, taken several classes, and understand both classical and operant conditioning.
but i can't train dogs for squat.
i understand the theories behind what i need to be doing. but when it comes down to the physical actions, i just can't get it right. i've never been a very coordinated person. i've had poor small motor control since i was a child. i understand the need for proper timing of rewards and corrections, but somewhere between my brain and my hand, that timing gets lost. it drives my SO crazy, because he;s great at all the physical stuff. he goes nuts watching me reward at just the wrong time. or give a command or distract and the wrong moment. it makes me crazy too, because i know i'm doing it wrong, but i just don't think i'm physically capable of getting the timing exact.
i mean, obviously i'm not totally incapable of training my dogs, otherwise i'd have to complete hellions on my hands, instead of just occasional monsters. i think that's more my ability to communicate with them than anything else. and there's certainly something to be said for my dogs, for learning despite my inconsistencies. but it's extremely frustrating to not be able to do what my brain knows i need to do.
this is why i'll never do agility.
this is just so frustrating for me. i had to vent a bit.

does anyone else have this problem? or how about the opposite?

-kelly
the squash
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does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not theother? i read. a lot. i ... frustrating for me. i had to vent a bit. does anyone else have this problem? or how about the opposite?

I am sort of the same as you. I think the biggest problem I have is in the timing, and the practice. I'm bad at follow-through. While my boys are quite well-behaved, they'll never get HIT's at obedience trials because I lack the stick-to-it-tiveness to practice like that. I *do* enjoy herding a lot, and we are pretty religious about training when it comes to that, but it's different, there are other things that come to mind.
I noticed that while the boys are really good about some things (they have really good stays & recalls, for example), they are terrible about others (I still have to remind them that pulling on the leash isn't acceptable, and that cat chasing is frowned upon). I have a theory about the leash thing, though, and it's because we're just country rubes that rarely use leashes, unless we go into town. It's an attention thing, sometimes I'm just not as interesting as that squirrel...no matter how hard I try!
Shelly & The Boys
Kelly, I've had that problem with my Mac because I'm always aware of his emotional reactions as well as his physical behavior. (A point for Lynn in our I-and-thou discussion?) Noticing that friends returned from "chicken-camp" with incredibly improved timing, I decided to practice on other species starting with my antique goldfish, using a laser pointer. Helped that he's slow. You might experiment with it. Don't beat up on yourself. I see a lot of trainers who "have the words, but not the music." They're not much good.
http://community.webtv.net/k9apple/Howloweenies
does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not the other?

In the field of human resources, this is a very real and considerable problem. Knowing how and why something should be done certainly doesn't mean one is able to perform the task.
That's a very interesting question. :-)
Michael
Whatever it takes.
does anyone else have this problem? -kelly the squash

This post frightened me Kelly. I thought
when reading it you were talking about me.Emotion: sad
But I do agility even with my motor
skill and timing problems. It is still
fun and a good way to try to overcome
both. Not that I ever totally will.
And I can tell you my coordination problems
have dramatically increased after taking phenobarbital for over 20 years.Emotion: sad(
Gwen
Experience is the best thing for trainer.. a well bred dog helps out more than anything else..
does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not the other?
i read. a lot. i do research. i'm extremely observant and an intuitive
learner. i've read a dozen good books (and a hundred web sites) on dog
training, taken several classes, and understand both classical and operant
conditioning.
but i can't train dogs for squat.
i understand the theories behind what i need to be doing. but when it comes
down to the physical actions, i just can't get it right. i've never been a
very coordinated person. i've had poor small motor control since i was a
child. i understand the need for proper timing of rewards and corrections,
but somewhere between my brain and my hand, that timing gets lost. it
drives my SO crazy, because he;s great at all the physical stuff. he goes
nuts watching me reward at just the wrong time. or give a command or
distract and the wrong moment. it makes me crazy too, because i know i'm
doing it wrong, but i just don't think i'm physically capable of getting the
timing exact.
i mean, obviously i'm not totally incapable of training my dogs, otherwise
i'd have to complete hellions on my hands, instead of just occasional
monsters. i think that's more my ability to communicate with them than
anything else. and there's certainly something to be said for my dogs, for
learning despite my inconsistencies. but it's extremely frustrating to not
be able to do what my brain knows i need to do.
this is why i'll never do agility.
this is just so frustrating for me. i had to vent a bit. does anyone else have this problem? or how about the opposite? -kelly
the squash
does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not the other?

It's far more common than you would think, and there can be different causes. I see it in people who work too hard at handling, people who can't coordinate multiple body parts or actions at the same time, people who have to physically turn into the dog to watch him/her because they can't "feel" the dog, people who have read so much & have to mentally sort through it & throw their timing way off, people who think they have to be doing something all the time, people who unconsciously need a tight lead to make contact with the dog - and a host of other causes.
Attention exercises are good for both dog and handler :-)

Lynn K.
does anyone else have a problem with being able to do one but not the other? i read. a lot. ... good books (and a hundred web sites) on dog training, taken several classes, and understand both classical and operant conditioning.

You said nothing about working under supervision of experienced dog instructor.
We spend half of our first training class learning how to make a correction with choke chain around our hands - first chain on student hand, then chain on trainer hand.He was very serious about force, swiftness and sync with No command. It was like tuning session.
I know those methods are not terribly popular here but they work and the other methods anavailiable anyway.
I do not think it is possible to learn how to train w/out attending classes if that correction/praise or some newer methods.
but i can't train dogs for squat. i understand the theories behind what i need to be doing. but when ... my inconsistencies. but it's extremely frustrating to not be able to do what my brain knows i need to do.

You probably should not get another dog while the first is not trained. You would be more concentrated and more calm working with one. The trained one would be living example for new dog. I remember my dog-mother taught dog-daughter not to eat shoes, I swear.

I'm not suggesting trowing all that one dog to shelter, God forbid, just a thought.
this is why i'll never do agility. this is just so frustrating for me. i had to vent a bit. does anyone else have this problem? or how about the opposite?

Everybody has his/her ups and downs
If not you then who?
Go back to work.
-kelly the squash

Nick (Chicha).
You said nothing about working under supervision of experienced dog instructor.

um, yes. i did. what part of "taken several classes", don't you get?
Go back to work.

no thanks, it's time for me to go home and play with the dogs.

-kelly
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