1 2 3 4
Hi Alison, Thanks, I didn't expect his reaction.

I would appreciate you e-mailing me the web addresses. Lynda

I'll do that . It can be a bit overwhelming on newsgroups but if you hang a round you'll find some good info and nice people:) Alison
and what about the dogs that think they can do whatever they want? can pull the owner, walk in front, lead the owner where the dog wants to go. my dogs aren't my partner, just like my children aren't my partner. my husband is my partner, i don't tell him what to do. I have worked with various trainers and they all seem to believe that walking on lead helps the dog to learn his place. If I'm walking and stop, the dog needs to stop and sit. He doesn't get to pull and go on his merry way.

I'm his boss. That does not mean I hit, beat or abuse the dog... just means he has to listen... just like my children. What's the point of obedience work if the dog doesn't have to do what I ask? when i talk about submission and dominance, I'm talking about being submissive or dominant to the human not to other dogs. My pitbull is a very dominant dog but not over his humans. He his alpha amont the other dogs. Dogs who think they are boss and can do whatever they want are holy terrors to live with.

If I allowed my dogs to do whatever they wanted, there could be serious consequences. I have only large breeds and a pitbull or 120lb bloodhound doing their own thing will never be good.

I see that this newsgroup is like most others... if someone says the sky is blue, someone will be there to disagree.
and what about the dogs that think they can do whatever they want?

Um. Most dogs think just that..until they are obedience trained. Have you come across an untrained dog that natually doesn't just do what he wants? Cuz that would be weird.
can pull the owner, walk in front, lead the owner where the dog wants to go. my dogs aren't my partner, just like my children aren't my partner.

A dog is not a child.
my husband is my partner, i don't tell him what to do.

And a dog is not a spouse either.
I have worked with various trainers and they all seem to believe that walking on lead helps the dog to learn his place.

And I've been a trainer for quite some years now. And I just see training from less of a "dominate the dog" world view than you or your trainers do. Sounds like you've worked with a lot of "old school" trainers. That, or you're really commited to the notion that dog's are out to "outrank" you at every turn. They're just not.
If I'm walking and stop, the dog needs to stop and sit. He doesn't get to pull and go on his merry way.

Um, none of the dogs I train do that either.
I'm his boss. That does not mean I hit, beat or abuse the dog... just means he has to listen... just like my children. What's the point of obedience work if the dog doesn't have to do what I ask?

Obedience work *is* about the dog listening to commands..all of the time. I happen to disagree with your take on how that happens. That does NOT automaitcally mean I have no idea what "training" means.
when i talk about submission and dominance, I'm talking about being submissive or dominant to the human not to other dogs.

And I find that to be a fundamentally unnecessary way of looking at things for most situations I've come across with dogs. You don't always get your way via "dominance", and the submissive dog in a group is often the one at least as in control of the behaviors of the dominant dog. A submissive dog can stop several dogs dead in their tracks with just one motion. A dominant dog has to work a lot harder to acheive those kinds of results.

I have a frontal lobe. I have all the credit cards. I know where the pet food store is and how to unlock the apartment door. The question of dominance in terms of how a dog understands it isn't even at issue in my house. I have ALL of the resources at my discretion. What else is there to discuss with a dog about who's in charge? Not much. And I'm certainly not going to teach a dog that humans function with the "dominant/submissive" model in the same way that dogs do. We don't.
My pitbull is a very dominant dog but not over his humans. He his alpha amont the other dogs. Dogs who think they are boss and can do whatever they want are holyterrors to live with.

I agree that untrained dogs are horrible to live with.

I disagree that most of them are that way vecause they "think they are boss". That's just silly. Its because they are untrained and have learned patterns of behavior because those behaviors worked..usually over and over again. Most dogs simply do not spend their loives trying to figure out how to bully everyone around them and how to be Boss over their humans.
If I allowed my dogs to do whatever they wanted, there could be serious consequences. I have only large breeds and a pitbull or 120lb bloodhound doing their own thing will never be good.

Oh well, that's different then.
I see that this newsgroup is like most others... if someone says the skyis blue, someone will be there to disagree.

So I'm not allowed to disagree with you then?
Tara
I'm his boss. That does not mean I hit, beat ... if the dog doesn't have to do what I ask?

Obedience work *is* about the dog listening to commands..all of the time. I happen to disagree with your take on how that happens. That does NOT automaitcally mean I have no idea what "training" means.

OBEDIENCE TRAINING is not about the dog LISTENING to commands, or they'd call it LISTENING TRAINING.
OBEDIENCE TRAINING is about the dog OBEYING commands.

And sooner rather than later, IMO.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
The Frivolity of Evil:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14 4 oh to be.html
dogs aren't children? neither are spouses?
you're kidding me!
*It was figurative language- a tool to help the reader visualize. * Just as my children have to listen to me so do my children. Someone mentioned a dog was their partner and I mentioned that my spouse was my partner, I don't tell him what to do. And since my dog is not my partner, I do tell them what to do.
not once did i say you could not disagree... i sure as hell disagree w/you so why can't you disagree w/me?
nor did i say you have no idea what you're talking about. you said that. Something is said for self depreciation
again, an inference of what type of trainers i have worked with. (your words: old school)
you seem to have a problem w/dominance and submission issues but why in the wild there aren't these problems. animals keep it simple. Another metaphor: There's a chief and then the indians
Obedience work *is* about the dog listening to commands..all of thetime. automaitcally mean I have no idea what "training" means.

What is my take? I didn't mention anything specific so why don't you tell me what my take is.
I must be doing something right w/my dogs because we've done delta therapy work and search and rescue and am training another for s&r.

Different strokes for different folks. Hope no one breathes the wrong way in this ng... cuz there could be hell to pay
Different strokes for different folks. Hope no one breathes the wrong way in this ng... cuz there could be hell to pay

You seem to have an amazingly big chip on your shoulder. It must be difficult to walk at times,carrying all that weight. Does it affect your posture too?
Terri

Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey," died peacefully at age
93. The most traumatic part for his family was getting him into the coffin.

They put his left leg in. And then the trouble started.