Hiya,
I have a 10 month old Border Collie, Jake, who is on the larger side of the breed (his "dad" is big).
I have recently gone back to work and Jake's gone from off lead walks up in the woods during the day to lead walks in the morning and night. I don't like doing that with him and have on occasion taken him into the park/down a disused railway track, so he can be off his lead but at 6am in the morning it is pitch black and I'm a bit spooked!

He also plays up more on the lead - he tries to chase cars and if someone comes up near him rears up at them (or tries to) or worse still lies down and stares at them and won't budge (highly amusing to spectators, highly embarrasing for me Emotion: smile None of this happens when he is roaming about up in the woods.
He'll get great walks at the weekend and of course winter and the dark only seem to last forever!! But I was wondering if I could run with him yet, on the pavement, which I feel would give him more of a workout. I had thought with him being bigger this would be OK but have been told as he is bigger, I should wait longer.He weighs 60lb. What do you think.
Many thanks
Lynda
1 2 3 4
()
He also plays up more on the lead - he tries to chase cars and if someone comes up near ... to spectators, highly embarrasing for me Emotion: smile None of this happens when he is roaming about up in the woods.

How 'bout some OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
You didn't mention a word about it.
You wouldn't be having those problems if he'd been OBEDIENCE TRAINED.

And if *I* were you, Lynda, I wouldn't wait another day before getting started.
()
But I was wondering if I could run with him yet, on the pavement, which I feel would give him ... be OK but have been told as he is bigger, I should wait longer.He weighs 60lb. What do you think.

I* would wait until he was approximately 18 months old before taking him "running," and even then *I would only run with him on grass, dirt, sand, etc., not on hard pavement.
Running short distances on hard pavement is okay, provided the dog isn't overweight and is otherwise structurally sound.

Tip: After he's been OBEDIENCE TRAINED, and has a reliable RECALL, take him to a nearby park or field and use RETRIEVING as a way to exercise him. Use a Frisbee, a retriever training dummy (sometimes called a "bumper"), etc., whatever object works best for you and your dog.
IMO, other than possibly swimming, there's no better way to safely exercise a dog than having it retrieve things. The initial hard chase, followed by the easy lope of the return, interspersed with periods of rest and recuperation, IMO, are easier on the dog structurally.

Of course, you can also eventually get involved in doggie GAMES, too, and become another one of those ubiquitous Agility Gals.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply by e-mail
I wouldn't run with him at this age it can cause joint problems and I'd already be careful with Jake since he is quite large. I'd also be concerned about keeping him fit and thin.

Melanie Lee Chang > Form ever follows function. Departments of Anthropology and Biology >
University of Pennsylvania > Louis Sullivan (Email Removed) >
You wouldn't be having those problems if he'd been OBEDIENCE TRAINED.

Whoa, wait a minute. We're talking about an adolescent border collie who's just had his exercise dramatically reduced. I do believe the OP has been training this dog IIRC, and in any case I agree that it's an important part of the solution.
However, the main problem here is how to expend that pent-up energy in healthy ways. If the OP can't give him the outside time he used to get, then she has to figure out ways to stimulate him mentally and physically inside.

I used to toss a ball to Madigan in the house about 500 times a day. I am not exaggerating. My arm would get tired. But with my CFS acting up badly at the time she was an adolescent, it was the best I could do. And she got really good at catching.
Mental stimulation can help, too. Give his toys names, and teach him to fetch them.
Adolescent, under-exercised border collies. Shudder. :}

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You wouldn't be having those problems if he'd been OBEDIENCE TRAINED.

Whoa, wait a minute. We're talking about an adolescent border collie who's just had his exercise dramatically reduced.

So???

I do believe the OP has been training this dog IIRC,

Leah, would you please refer me to the part of her post that mentions, even hints at, obedience training for this dog?
He "plays up...on the lead - he tries to chase cars and if someone comes up near him rears up at them."
Does that sound like the dog is getting any OBEDIENCE TRAINING?

If so, it's apparently not very good OBEDIENCE TRAINING.
and in any case I agree that it's an important part of the solution.

WTF?
Then what's with all the "whoa, wait a minute" whining?

"Whoa, wait a minute" for what, exactly?
If you agree with me (which is what you just did), what exactly do you want me to "whoa" and "wait a minute" for???
However, the main problem here is how to expend that pent-up energy in healthy ways.

That's precisely what good OBEDIENCE TRAINING, coupled with some daily RETRIEVING, can help to expend.
If the OP can't give him the outside time he used to get, then she has to figure out ways to stimulate him mentally and physically inside.

The only apparent reason that the OP supposedly isn't giving this dog more "outside time" is because of an apparent lack of OBEDIENCE TRAINING.
I.e., she apparently can't trust him outside. I don't know why exactly, that's why we have leashes, check cords, etc.
I used to toss a ball to Madigan in the house about 500 times a day. I am not exaggerating. ... the time she was an adolescent, it was the best I could do. And she got really good at catching.

Maybe if you had been able to do that OUTSIDE (and at great distances), she would have gotten more out of it, and your arm wouldn't have gotten so tired?
Mental stimulation can help, too.

That's where OBEDIENCE TRAINING and RETRIEVING come in!
Give his toys names, and teach him to fetch them.

In most areas of the world, fetching = RETRIEVING!

Adolescent, under-exercised border collies. Shudder. :}

Leah, I just have to say, this is one of your absolutely strangest posts yet.

PS: Have you been taking your medicine?

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
The Frivolity of Evil:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14 4 oh to be.html
()

He also plays up more on the lead - he ... happens when he is roaming about up in the woods.

How 'bout some OBEDIENCE TRAINING? You didn't mention a word about it. You wouldn't be having those problems if he'd been OBEDIENCE TRAINED.

GENTLY removing the detonator, Jack - can I ask a little more of you experience with different breeds?
- I always figured I knew the score and have 'pet trained' many dogs since I was a kid. I've had a sheltie, Samoyed, borzoi, shelter adopted jrt x whippet looking mix, shelter adopt GSD x retriever looking mix, rehomed gsd x collie 'thinking' mix and my very own rescue GSD. In the times I couldn't have my own dog, I 'adopted' just about every dog in the neighbourhood and have had walk-mates of just about every kind from Rotties to poodles. I'm now 36 and I have never, ever encountered a dog such as my present, who I love and has been going to classes with some of the most regarded trainers in the country. I'll die b4 she ever leaves my side and in the (hopefully)
14 + years we spend together, we will both learn a lot more about eachother.
I accept, she's a fantastic dog and I am a 'handler in learning', but to suggest a dog needs training is a bit like saying 'wool needs washing'. Sometimes, 'training' needs a little elaboration and training an adolescent, 'hyper' kinda dog is a damn sight easier said than done.

Diana & Cin

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Diana
() How 'bout some OBEDIENCE TRAINING? You didn't mention a word about it. You wouldn't be having those problems if he'd been OBEDIENCE TRAINED.

GENTLY removing the detonator, Jack - can I ask a little more of you experience with different breeds?

Sure, but can I ask you what difference it makes here?

I'm basically a retriever guy (I breed, train and field trial retrievers), but I've been intimately involved in all-breed rescue, primarily rehabilitation work, for many, many years now. Yes, including many, many BCs, and other very smart, highly energetic dogs.

Do you think BCs don't need OBEDIENCE TRAINING? Or what?

Have you ever field-trialed a field-bred retriever?
- I always figured I knew the score and 'pet trained' many dogs since I was a kid. I've had ... and in the (hopefully) 14 + years we spend together, we will both learn a lot more about each other.

And all that means what, exactly, Diana?
I accept, she's a fantastic dog and I am a 'handler in learning', but to suggest a dog needs training is a bit like saying 'wool needs washing'.

Do you know any 10 month old dogs, name any breed you want, who don't need OBEDIENCE TRAINING?
Isn't the lack of OBEDIENCE TRAINING overwhelmingly the reason that so many people have behavior "problems" with their dogs?

For example, Lynda's dog, who "plays up...on the lead - he tries to chase cars and if someone comes up near him rears up at them," like Lynda's.
What does that sound like to *you,* Diana?
Sometimes, 'training' needs a little elaboration and training an adolescent, 'hyper' kinda dog is a damn sight easier said than done.

OBEDIENCE TRAINING per se is pretty self-explanatory, IMO, and is pretty much like saying that someone needs a high school or college education.
Lynda's dog sounds like it's a pretty normal 10 month old BC that's not getting any (or poor) OBEDIENCE TRAINING, and it appears to be hindering Lynda's ability to even take her dog outdoors for exercise, etc.
And no, I don't think this dog is "hyper." I just think it's been poorly trained, and now may not even get some much-needed exercise because of it.
I didn't, and don't, think it's necessary to "elaborate" further at this point on the specific kinds of obedience training, absent additional information from Lynda.
Perhaps she'll speak up soon?

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
The Frivolity of Evil:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14 4 oh to be.html
I have been following this thread and now I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with my sheltie. She is 7 months old and very active and I take her outside and she runs at high speed many laps around the yard on grass and gravel. I had injured my knee a few weeks ago and couldn't go far so I taught her to run at my comand of a "psst" (I can't whistle) I figured she needs to run off some energy and she can run amazingly fast. Now I read about joint problems. Should I be concerned about that with my sheltie?
Lori
I have been following this thread and now I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong with my sheltie. She is ... she can run amazingly fast. Now I read about joint problems. Should I be concerned about that with my sheltie?

I don't think you have anything to worry about, Kayla. She's running mostly on grass, she's running relatively short distances (assuming that you don't live, say, on the King Ranch in Texas), etc.

Running a young dog, especially an overweight one, on hard surfaces, like concrete or asphalt, long distances (like a jogger would run) can cause/exacerbate joint problems. It's better to wait until the dog is basically fully grown, at around 18 months or so, before going jogging.
Just keep her on the grass, let her run a few laps. Rest a bit, and then repeat, etc.
And be sure to keep her lean and mean!
I wouldn't run with him at this age it ... I'd also be concerned about keeping him fit and thin.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to reply via e-mail
The Frivolity of Evil:
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14 4 oh to be.html
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