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You can also find a good PR based trainer, my dogs recalls are incredible, and I've never used an electric collar.

There will come those times in most dogs' lives when they will be presented with very strong temptations, e.g., to ... that rabbit over there? Nothing? Well, why not chase it then? It's fun! Something not so nice? CONSEQUENCES, you say?

And there will come a time when a dog chooses to chase that rabbit over fear of being zapped, or he won't have the collar on at all and knows it. I've seen dogs run right through electrical fences in order to get to what they want.
So.. I'd rather base my training on anticipation of reward, rather than fear of consequence. It's worked great so far, and my dogs are far from locked in the basement Emotion: smile
()
If you've been training your dog, he should be able ... unpleasant things pretty damn pleasant if you work at it).

He is fairly good for getting his teeth brushed but he certainly doesn't like it. Is there a way to ... I also talk to him when I am doing it, like saying "good boy" and rub his head or belly.

I have never failed to find a way to make brushing a dog's teeth either a pleasurable or "neutral" experience. Of course, the earlier you start out, the easier it will go. Do you use a toothbrush? Have you ever tried using your finger instead? You just have to figure out why he's not enjoying it. Are you brushing too hard? Too long? Does the toothpaste taste (it only matters how it tastes to the dog) like the north end of a south-bound skunk? What position are you placing him in while you're brushing? Maybe another position would be more comfortable? Etc.My dogs are big dogs, so I've developed a way that makes it easy on me, and also easy on the dogs. I've trained my dogs to sit between my legs while I'm standing over them (we both face to the front, and I can control them with pressure from my knees). Then I reach down and hold a lip up with my left hand while I brush their teeth with my right hand. Then I do the same for the other side. Then I follow up with an oral rinse (which they absolutely love the taste of, Nolvadent Oral Cleansing Solution), using the toothbrush again.

It took a little trial and error before I found just the right combination of tastes, but all I have to do now is reach for the toothbrush and toothpaste and my dogs start lining up to have their teeth brushed they think it's a GREAT EXPERIENCE, a "treat" unto itself.
You, too, can get the same results, provided you're willing to experiment a little and find a way to make the experience pleasurable.
If the relationship between you and your dog is so ... is somehow associated with "unpleasant things," and how that happened.

He doesn't do that now, I am just worried that it might start to be that way if I go to get him when I need to brush his teeth or comb out a knot.

Again, the trick is in making those experiences as PLEASURABLE as possible.
And if you're stressed out doing those things, your dog probably will be, too.
Recall reliability is directly proportionate to how much time and ... off leash, and how observant you are when he is.

ok, I will have to work more on it then.

Good!

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
F&@k Cindy Sheehan...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19179 http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks081705.html http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19188 http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19187 http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson081905.html
So.. I'd rather base my training on anticipation of reward, rather than fear of consequence. It's worked great so far, and my dogs are far from locked in the basement Emotion: smile

Out of curiosity. What kind of dogs do you have? What would you do with a dog that finds an 'unapproved activity' (say, like chasing a bear) more rewarding than anything you have to offer?

I don't know a whole hell of a lot about electric collars, but if your dog is associating the e- with the collar, you're not doing something right.
Suja
()
When those times come (and they will, unless keep your ... then? It's fun! Something not so nice? CONSEQUENCES, you say?

And there will come a time when a dog chooses to chase that rabbit over fear of being zapped, or he won't have the collar on at all and knows it.

That silly comment could only come from someone who knows absolutely nothing about e-collar training.
You should stick to the things that you know at least something about, Ronna, whatever the hell that might be.
There must be something, right?
I've seen dogs run right through electrical fences in order to get to what they want.

Yes, it's entirely possible. But highly improbable, if trained correctly.
So.. I'd rather base my training on anticipation of reward, rather than fear of consequence.

Waaay more powerful than that, of course, is the anticipation of reward PLUS a healthy fear of consequences.
It's called a two-fer (yes, twice the power!), and I feel that I owe it to *my* dogs, to give them every chance I can for them to make the correct decision, one that could actually save their lives.

Again, unlike you, I care more about *my* dogs than I do some silly Shining Path idiocy, and my commie pinko liberal friends down at Starbucks.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
F&@k Cindy Sheehan...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19179 http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks081705.html http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19188 http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19187 http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson081905.html
So.. I'd rather base my training on anticipation of reward, ... my dogs are far from locked in the basement Emotion: smile

Out of curiosity. What kind of dogs do you have? What would you do with a dog that finds an 'unapproved activity' (say, like chasing a bear) more rewarding than anything you have to offer?

With people like Ronna there are no "unapproved activities," because such disapproval would entail the use of a word that is strictly verboden amongst the Shining Pathers NO.
The word "no" to a Shining Pather brings to mind images of Nazi concentration camps, human sacrifices among the Aztecs, head-hunting in Borneo, and re-runs of Ozzie and Harriet.
The horror. The horror.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
F&@k Cindy Sheehan...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19179 http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks081705.html http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19188 http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19187 http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson081905.html
He is fairly good for getting his teeth brushed but ... like saying "good boy" and rub his head or belly.

I have never failed to find a way to make brushing a dog's teeth either a pleasurable or "neutral" experience. ... south-bound skunk? What position are you placing him in while you're brushing? Maybe another position would be more comfortable? Etc.

I had my dad hold him one time to brush his teeth and it was so much easier but I will not always have someone around to help so I try to do it myself. I have beef toothpaste but he doesn't like it so I just use water. I brush each side once or twice so the process takes about 3 minutes with the squirming included. I will try to use my finger maybe with a new toothpaste and see if he likes that instead. I will also try new positions and maybe have my dad hold him for the next few times, until he gets more comfortable and squirms less so I can do it myself.
My dogs are big dogs, so I've developed a way that makes it easy on me, and also easy on ... side. Then I follow up with an oral rinse (which they absolutely love the taste of, Nolvadent Oral Cleansing Solution)

I will have to check this product out, where do you find it?
, using the toothbrush again. It took a little trial and error before I found just the right combination of ... dogs start lining up to have their teeth brushed they think it's a GREAT EXPERIENCE, a "treat" unto itself.

wow, I hope Maui feels the same way after awhile!
()
I have never failed to find a way to make ... you're brushing? Maybe another position would be more comfortable? Etc.

I had my dad hold him one time to brush his teeth and it was so much easier but I ... use water. I brush each side once or twice so the process takes about 3 minutes with the squirming included.

Why so long?? Why with just water???
Use DOG toothpaste; experiment with different brands until you find one that your dog *enjoys.* If you can, the battle is mostly over.

Make brushing his teeth a game, make it fun, do it in short bursts, a few teeth at a time, etc.; It's not supposed to be like open-heart surgery, you know.
RELAX.
And give my method a try, but do it on your knees. with your dog sitting between them.
BUT DON'T DO IT FOR 3 MINUTES STRAIGHT, for crissakes. It's a wonder that the poor little guy doesn't roll over on his back and plead for mercy, when he sees you coming toward him with that toothbrush!

I know that I would, and I own many, many shotguns.
I will try to use my finger maybe with a new toothpaste and see if he likes that instead. I ... him for the next few times, until he gets more comfortable and squirms less so I can do it myself.

My dogs are big dogs, so I've developed a way ... they absolutely love the taste of, Nolvadent Oral Cleansing Solution)

I will have to check this product out, where do you find it?

Any of the online veterinary/pet supply places will have it.

Here's just one:
http://www.allivet.com/Dog Dental s/104.htm
You can also usually find it at Petco, PetSmart, etc.
, using the toothbrush again. It took a little trial ... they think it's a GREAT EXPERIENCE, a "treat" unto itself.

wow, I hope Maui feels the same way after awhile!

He can, if you can find a way to make it FUN, and taste good.

Handsome Jack Morrison
*gently remove the detonator to send me e-mail
F&@k Cindy Sheehan...
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19179 http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/lileks081705.html http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19188 http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=19187 http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson081905.html http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-op-tent21aug21,0,1957220.story
I had my dad hold him one time to brush ... the process takes about 3 minutes with the squirming included.

Why so long?? Why with just water???

I only use water because he doesn't like the taste of the toothpaste and water alone gets them clean. Also, the 3 minutes it takes only includes about 30 secs or less of actual teeth brushing.
Use DOG toothpaste; experiment with different brands until you find one that your dog *enjoys.* If you can, the battle is mostly over.

the beef toothpaste is Hartz brand dog dental toothpaste but I will pick up another brand/flavor the next chance I get.
Make brushing his teeth a game, make it fun, do it in short bursts, a few teeth at a time, ... know. RELAX. And give my method a try, but do it on your knees. with your dog sitting between them.

Ok, I'll try that next time.
BUT DON'T DO IT FOR 3 MINUTES STRAIGHT, for crissakes. It's a wonder that the poor little guy doesn't roll ... he sees you coming toward him with that toothbrush! I know that I would, and I own many, many shotguns.

I will try to use my finger maybe with a ... to check this product out, where do you find it?

Any of the online veterinary/pet supply places will have it. Here's just one: http://www.allivet.com/Dog Dental s/104.htm

thanks for the link! I use to give Maui breath mint type treats (8 in 1 DDS Dental Breath Tabs) after brushing and I only gave them to him after his teeth were clean so that it would be special but he recently started spitting them back out at me so now I guess he doesn't like them anymore. Maybe I can find something similar that he likes for after brushing too.
You can also usually find it at Petco, PetSmart, etc.

I usually shop at Petsmart but they just put a Petco about 5 minutes away from the Petsmart. I haven't gotten a chance to go there yet, it wasn't open the last time I was near there so I will have to check it out and see if any of them have the thing you mentioned and also a different tasting toothpaste.
Or find a good e-collar trainer and use that. I ... incredible that I'd hesitate to proof off-leash recalls without one.

You can also find a good PR based trainer, my dogs recalls are incredible, and I've never used an electric collar.

Hi, Ronna...I'm not sure that you understand that even though I have used an e-collar in training (and yes, the much-misunderstood prong collar, too), the methods that I use are PR based. Praise, treats, play - these are all positive reinforcers that I use constantly. One may be able to get a dog to work by aversion only, but you're not going to get a very enthusiastic worker! You may also be surprised to know that I use the principle of marking the correct behavior with a signal - not a clicker, since half my dogs are deaf, but I use a thumbs up - and conditioning the dog to recognize that the marker means they've earned a treat or a ball toss.

And I use all PRO in trick training. Positive reinforcement is the basis for almost all good, solid training, no matter what the method is - even Koehler.
However, I believe that there is a definite place for a well-timed correction. My deaf pit bull had an incredible recall, too, before the e-collar, and I wouldn't have introduced it unless I was already certain that she did. Since she's deaf, I wanted the vibration collar so I could call her back to me when she's going away from me and can't see me. I also wanted to be able to give her a correction with it if she chose to ignore it. She learned instantly that she is to come when I page her with a vibration, and I've hardly had to use any stimulation after the first hour of work with her in the collar.

In fact, now I rarely have to even use the pager since she has learned to stay within a perimeter of about 30 feet and to check in with me every few seconds or so. I can also take the collar off and not see any change in her behavior, but it's like taking off her ears in a panic situation.
Hope I explained myself well...
Kind Regards,
Tracy
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