Diddy, Tara, Shelly, thank you.
I log on here hoping to read some insights about dogs from the people I've come to respect and admire, get into a good discussion or heated argument, or be entertained by some of the flying barbs and the exploits of Harlan, Kahn, and others. I figure I'd better be prepared with a thick skin the price of expressing an opinion.

I don't expect gratification on a personal level, beyond hoping someone will let me know they've found an idea or suggestion useful, and that the talented and knowledgeable core on this forum treat me as a peer. I am floored. Loyalty is wonderful and too rare, but here you are taking up for me. I mentioned in a post a few weeks ago about some people behaving astonishingly badly. It makes me treasure it when people behave well. You do your dogs credit.
Not only that, you've complimented me more than I
thought possible. You've apparently paid close enough attention to my posts to know more about me than I realized I'd let on. You make me feel valued and appreciated! I've tended to feel a bit of an outsider, thinking I am less sentimental than many here. Tara is right,

though I do care about dogs.
I'm not really worried about Judith. I consider her a bad actor. Like Leah, she stole a dog and indulged in a lot of self-congratulatory rationalization. Like Leah, I don't think there's enough common ground to support productive communication.
Mostly I ignore her posts. I answered the one because it was addressed directly to me. Trying to be polite. I didn't want to feed her misconceptions, but it's her prerogative to think of me however she likes, and to pigeonhole my comments
according to my tally of deceased animals and friends, if she so desires.
In case anyone else misunderstood me, though:
The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was
If you even THINK it's time, it's past time. Because even the thoughtof letting them go is so repulsive to ... reach the point that you startto wonder if it's time, then the dog has crossed the line, and it's pasttime.

My issue is not with the responsibility of euthanasia, it's with the criterion here. I wondered every day for several days, I think it was, it felt like ages, with my Lab Shasta. We made some adjustments to his pain medications because they seemed to be compromising his heart. One day we had reduced the pain meds and it obviously hurt him to get up. He lay there and watched me as I went about my chores. I had this strong feeling that as long as he could keep an eye on me, he was fulfilling his mission, which was to accompany me on the road of life, and would not want to be denied it.
I didn't think of Shasta as a pet. He was a mentor and an inspiration, a better person than I, someone I will spend the rest of my life living up to. I had control over many aspects of his existence, but I considered him in many ways my superior. Nothing I know or assume about "dogs" or "death" or "kindness" told me what the right time was. I only knew that I wouldn't fail to do the best I could

by Shasta. That would be an unthinkable violation of trust. I just had many doubts about when.
The next day we got him his Fentanyl patch, and he was like a young dog again, or so it seemed. Two days after that, following a night in which he struggled to breathe with fluid in his lungs, I took him to the vet in my pickup. He lay with his head on my lap, with the A/C cranked up to help him breathe, until she could come out.
My only point is, I don't think I hung onto him too long. I don't know, but the feeling I had, akin to the one that told me THIS was the dog for me twelve years before, seemed as good a guide as any. He was strong and I felt he would rather exercise that strength than have it taken from him. This despite the fact that it was several days from the time I started to question whether it was time, to when I finally felt it was right.
Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I support the individual judgment of any caring owner, whether they share my opinion or not.
Amy Dahl
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I log on here hoping to read some insights about dogs from the people I've come to respect and admire, ... of Harlan, Kahn, and others. I figure I'd better be prepared with a thick skin the price of expressing an opinion.

I've been wayy too busy lately to keep up with threads, especially the Dog Whisperer thread(s), so I've obviously missed a lot!

Amy - just my two cents. You've always seemed like a very skilled and compassionate dog owner/handler/trainer and a very welcome addition to this newsgroup.
The core of this newsgroup is one of the most rational and intelligent groups of "dog people" I have ever encountered. I participate in some other dog forums where more people are like the recent drop-ins, and they get very bizarre.
I skip around here, based someonewhat on who posted a thread, but try to pay attention to losses and brags as well.
I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+, and a &^*&(* yard sale (my last one EVER TYVM!) and just a whole lot of other things keeping me busy.
This is a forum which can be aggravating, but is truly enjoyable most of the time, and Amy, you are part of that.

Janet Boss
www.bestfriendsdogobedience.com
I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+

Details! Details!
We want details!
Heh.

Handsome Jack Morrison
Hezbollah Video Dating Service:
http://www.adammutterperl.com/video/hezbollah.mov
Norwegian Author: "Israel Is History"
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/189524.php
Reuters admits altering Beirut photo!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

Hezbollah is using the UN as its ***.
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/weblog/why the un is a joke/

The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDBhMzg5Mzk4NjQ5MjM5OTJhZjRjMWQ4OWMzNDhmMzk =

What the Democrats and their money man (George Soros) have in store for American workers: http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2006/08/maurice-strong-george-soros-team-up-to.html

Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!): http://www.obsessionthemovie.com /
If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie here:

It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.

Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.
Amy - just my two cents. You've always seemed like a very skilled and compassionate dog owner/handler/trainer and a very welcome addition to this newsgroup.

Thank you.
With reinforcement like this, you can all anticipate hearing even more from me..
I've had 2 dogs with giardia this last week+, and a &[/nq]^*&(* yard sale
(my last one EVER TYVM!) and just a whole lot of other things keeping me busy.

Care to tell me how they were diagnosed and treated? I've had some unsettling experiences with presumed giardia and it seems the more I learn, the more confused I get. I just treated our two puppies, Lucky and Sugar, for it. In fact they're still on the metranidizole. Did you go in for a comprehensive sanitizing binge? Do you have ideas how they got it?
Amy Dahl
time.

Amy, I don't agree with this either. Not to speak for Diddy, but I wonder if she really meant this literally. Boomer's condition changes enough that there have been many times I thought I'd be saying goodbye the next day, only to have him rally enough that I knew without a doubt that he wasn't ready.
My only point is, I don't think I hung onto him too long. I don't know, but the feeling I ... days from the time I started to question whether it was time, to when I finally felt it was right.

Dogs are individuals and have differing levels of tolerance to pain and discomfort, as well as differing types and strengths of bonds to their owners. You know your dogs better than anyone else, and if you don't think you held onto him too long, I'm sure you didn't.
Just in case anyone is in any doubt, I support the individual judgment of any caring owner, whether they share my opinion or not.

And that's it exactly.
Mustang Sally
in thread Amy Dahl (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
I'm not really worried about Judith. I consider her a bad actor. Like Leah, she stole a dog and indulged in a lot of self-congratulatory rationalization. Like Leah, I don't think there's enough common ground to support productive communication.

I thinks Judith is NOT a bad actor. I think she's a good hearted person, and has initially been misunderstood and treated badly (as usual for this group) and is lashing out at everyone in defensive fashion, while (as usual) people twist her words and intentions and go with worst case scenarios, until the confused person goes into total meltdown, and presents herself in bad light.
I know Judith misread and misinterpretted what you said, and took it equally in an ugly twist. I can understand why she did. I was trying to point out to her, that there was a misinterpretation here. Just as she misinterpretted and insisted that Sally supported greyhound racing and was a part of the "machine" when we all know this to not be true.

I equally think Judith was abused as a whole, not paying attention to WHO did it, because I quit reading that long ago, the deviated mutations of thought on both sides from the original made my head hurt.
The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was

And I agree with your last and final statement. Anyone wrestling with whether it's "time" has to make that decision themselves. They have my sympathies, and NOT my judgement.
As for Shasta, the same. You have my sympathies, and I wouldn't even think to judge on what is Right or Wrong.
I know Judith misread and misinterpretted what you said

I think Judith does that waaaay too often to bode well for her future here. Sometimes she's not even in the right ballpark, much less the right seat.
And using WebTV as a newsgroup reader certainty doesn't help her any.

FWIW, I don't think she's a bad actor, either.
Misguided, yes.
Thin-skinned, yes.
Able to leap to wrong conclusions in a single bound, yes.

Handsome Jack Morrison
Hezbollah Video Dating Service:
http://www.adammutterperl.com/video/hezbollah.mov
Norwegian Author: "Israel Is History"
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/189524.php
Reuters admits altering Beirut photo!
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3286966,00.html

Hezbollah is using the UN as its ***.
http://jameshudnall.com/blog.php?/weblog/why the un is a joke/

The Brink of Madness. A familiar place.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZDBhMzg5Mzk4NjQ5MjM5OTJhZjRjMWQ4OWMzNDhmMzk =

Obsession: Radical Islam’s War with the West (a must-see movie!): http://www.obsessionthemovie.com /
If you don't want your own DVD, you can view the movie here:

It's over an hour long, so make some popcorn, crack open a beer, and take a good, hard look at what's coming.

Or...you can keep your head stuck in the sand.
in thread sighthounds & siberians (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
The statement of Diddy's that I reacted to was of last to time.

Amy, I don't agree with this either. Not to speak for Diddy, but I wonder if she really meant this ... goodbye the next day, only to have him rally enough that I knew without a doubt that he wasn't ready.

I guess I didn't mean that literally either. I knew Danny's time was shortening.I think the REAL criteria that I used, was.. Is this level of quality of life acceptable. Does he ever have any light in the tunnel of ever having any better days than the present? His days were at the point, he was on very strong pain medications to maintain his quality of life. He had ONE good hour of the day out of 24. The rest of the hours , he was so zonked out on pain meds, he was nearly unconscious.

His Good hour was the hour when they started to wear off. It was his final hour, when that picture was taken. I timed his last hour of his life to correspond with when he was most lucent, and could enjoy it the most. He always had ONE good hour, when he was himself. Then the medications faded to where they were no longer effective.
I made the call. I had tried everything possible to reverse, I knew he was riddled with infection, that his system could not fight. If he could not fight the infection, he had no chance. His organ profiles showed strong organs. He was not in organ failure. I could have probably kept him going for some time. Upon necropsy, his system was far worse than lab tests belied. He had obviously been suffering. He had this infection for 5 months, and we never got a handle on it. I transported him to the University of Tennessee to see if they could help him. They tried. He just couldn't beat it.
Who knows? He may have even lived an additional 5 months, but when I saw the necropsy, I was glad I quit, and wished I had quit earlier. He was such a stoic fellow, always. Apparently his son is the same.
in thread Handsome Jack Morrison (Email Removed) whittled the following words:
Thin-skinned, yes.

Yes, but she had salt and gravel rubbed in open words that is bound to make anyone cranky
Able to leap to wrong conclusions in a single bound, yes.As opposed to DELIBERATELY turning words and thoughts around in an effort to harrass her, and deliberately rephrasing he comments in the worst light, and twisting her words and intentions beyond all recognition?

I can see why frustration would lead her to that.
Unintentional leaping to wrong conclusions is less of a crime in my mind than calculated and deliberate sabotage with intent to frustrate a newbie.

No Web TV did her no favors.
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